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Halloween is 'dangerous' says the Pope
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sgnofcross



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:09 am    Post subject: Halloween is 'dangerous' says the Pope Reply with quote



Halloween is 'dangerous' says the Pope as he slams 'anti-Christian' festival

By Nick Pisa
Last updated at 1:10 PM on 30th October 2009



Link to original

The Vatican today slammed Halloween as 'anti-Christian' and 'dangerous' for its links to the occult.

The October 31st ritual falls before the deeply significant Roman Catholic holy day of All Saints this Sunday.

The Pope's condemnation follows on from similar criticism from Catholic bishops in Spain who earlier this week urged parents not to let their children dress up as ghosts and goblins.

In an article entitled 'The Dangerous Messages of Halloween', the Vatican's official newspaper L'Osservatore Romano quoted liturgical expert Joan Maria Canals as saying: 'Halloween has an undercurrent of occultism and is absolutely anti-Christian'.

Father Canals urged parents 'to be aware of this and try to direct the meaning of the feast towards wholesomeness and beauty rather than terror, fear and death.'

L'Osservatore praised a church at Alcala de Henares which had decided to hold a prayer vigil on Saturday night, and the Paris archdiocese's idea of having kids play a lucky dip dubbed 'Holywins' instead.

It added that: 'These and similar initiatives in South America allow Catholic communities to have an alternative to the feast, to bear witness to their faith and Christian hope in the face of death.'

The Catholic Church in Italy has taken a dim view of Halloween's growing popularity for years.

Last year, the Italian bishops newspaper Avvenire appealed for a full-blown boycott, describing Halloween as a 'dangerous celebration of horror and the macabre'.

Aldo Bonaiuto, head of the Catholic Church's anti occult and sect unit, warned parents of the dangers of children and said the event 'promotes the culture of death' and could spur 'pitiless (Satanic) sects without scruples.'

He added: 'Halloween pushes new generations towards a mentality of esoteric magic and it attacks sacred and spiritual values through a devious initiation to the art and images of the occult. At best, it gives a big helping hand to consumerism and materialism.'

The Vatican's criticism of Halloween comes after it praised the witches and wizards saga Harry Potter - an about face on earlier strong condemnation on the JK Rowling series.
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Gloriosae Dominae



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's about time. I wonder if a child dressed like the devil brought up the gifts at the liberal NO Parish I am affiliated with. Last year the Celebrant thought Jesus would find that to be ironic and funny.

I was not amused.

Quote:
The Vatican's criticism of Halloween comes after it praised the witches and wizards saga Harry Potter - an about face on earlier strong condemnation on the JK Rowling series.

Nothing like a nice consistent message from the Vatican. I think they call it Doublethink.
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Sieveboy



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are bigger fish to fry than this. Everybody loves a costume party, which is what Halloween is these days. Perhaps there's a little gluttony going on, not much else. Give it a rest.
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Conitor



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Halloween is 'dangerous' says the Pope Reply with quote

When did

Quote:
liturgical expert Joan Maria Canals

become the Pope?
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wrigleys



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Daily Mail is rubbish and is notorious for spinning stories. NEVER READ IT. Even if it claims that grass is green, just take a look out just in case.
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Hark the Harold



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sieveboy wrote:
There are bigger fish to fry than this. Everybody loves a costume party, which is what Halloween is these days. Perhaps there's a little gluttony going on, not much else. Give it a rest.




Give it a rest???!! The advice you give is obviously practiced by you, as it's clear your asleep at the wheel on this one! I personally know someone who was used by her parents, grandparents and their fun little generational satanist crowd, as a breeder from a young age, to provide the child for the climax of their "costume party" that lasted for days and ended on Halloween night.
Try this on....just because all parties are innocent when children play cops and robbers, doesn't reduce the level of the crime committed by those who actually are robbers, because the kids don't comprehend! The same goes for those who celebrate halloween, worldwide, for a purpose much darker then candy!! When it comes to the souls of your own children, why err on the side other than caution???!! Being Catholic, why not celebrate All Saints Day instead???!! Homer
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dcs



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hark the Harold wrote:
Give it a rest???!! The advice you give is obviously practiced by you, as it's clear your asleep at the wheel on this one! I personally know someone who was used by her parents, grandparents and their fun little generational satanist crowd, as a breeder from a young age, to provide the child for the climax of their "costume party" that lasted for days and ended on Halloween night.

The fact that one family abused a Halloween costume party does not mean that everyone will. You may as well say we should abolish the Mass because Satanists have Black Masses.

Quote:
Being Catholic, why not celebrate All Saints Day instead???!!

Why not celebrate both?
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apocalypta



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dcs wrote:
Hark the Harold wrote:
Give it a rest???!! The advice you give is obviously practiced by you, as it's clear your asleep at the wheel on this one! I personally know someone who was used by her parents, grandparents and their fun little generational satanist crowd, as a breeder from a young age, to provide the child for the climax of their "costume party" that lasted for days and ended on Halloween night.

The fact that one family abused a Halloween costume party does not mean that everyone will. You may as well say we should abolish the Mass because Satanists have Black Masses.

Quote:
Being Catholic, why not celebrate All Saints Day instead???!!

Why not celebrate both?


"......abolish the Mass because satanists have black Masses.....? That's doublespeak, too.
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Hark the Harold



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="dcs"]
Hark the Harold wrote:
Give it a rest???!! The advice you give is obviously practiced by you, as it's clear your asleep at the wheel on this one! I personally know someone who was used by her parents, grandparents and their fun little generational satanist crowd, as a breeder from a young age, to provide the child for the climax of their "costume party" that lasted for days and ended on Halloween night.



The fact that one family abused a Halloween costume party does not mean that everyone will. You may as well say we should abolish the Mass because Satanists have Black Masses.
Quote:
Being Catholic, why not celebrate All Saints Day instead???!!

Why not celebrate both?[/quote



dcs said:]The fact that one family abused a Halloween costume party does not mean that everyone will.

Hark says: First of all, it's more than one family, it's world wide. They were only one group of many.


dcs said: You may as well say we should abolish the Mass because Satanists have Black Masses.


Hark says: How absurd! You might say that, but I wouldn't. There's a wee bit of a difference here, with the black mass, they're imitating us, when dressing up like devils and witches, we're imitating them, though I don't think anything that could be said would matter when the prize of a bag of candy is at stake.


dcs said: Why not celebrate both?


Hark says: GREAT!!! Devil one day, Saint the next! I'm sure that won't cause any confusion during catechism with the kiddies! Why not celebrate Hanukkah???!! Why not Kwanza???!! Cinco de Mayo???!! If you're not Jewish, black or mexican, it wouldn't make much sense, would it? Are you so needy for another party that you can"t wait for 24 hours for All Saints?....Assuming that would be the primary celebration for you, if not, have a party on April 1st, I'm sure it will feel familiar! Homer

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penitent99



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The eve of All Saints Day has morphed into a month-long celebration of the pagan holiday Samhain. It gets visibly darker every year. I understand people are in denial, but come on guys, you really need to get real.
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amasimp



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd guess a fair number of us participated in halloween as children. We carved pumpkins, trick-or-treated, and dressed up.

Did that make you satinists or occultists?
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Oremus pro invicem



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amasimp wrote:
I'd guess a fair number of us participated in halloween as children. We carved pumpkins, trick-or-treated, and dressed up.

Did that make you satinists or occultists?


That isn't really a solid argument. It is like asking if everyone who drinks beer is an alcoholic or if everyone that tried street drugs is an addict. Obviously not. But the desensitization begins somewhere.

But, no one that dabbles in the occult will become a satanist. I look back on my childhood and the seances, heavy metal rock music, etc. and I am freaked out at the dangers I put myself in. I have one seriously strong Guardian Angel. Thank the Good God.
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Oremus pro invicem



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oremus pro invicem wrote:
amasimp wrote:
I'd guess a fair number of us participated in halloween as children. We carved pumpkins, trick-or-treated, and dressed up.

Did that make you satinists or occultists?


That isn't really a solid argument. It is like asking if everyone who drinks beer is an alcoholic or if everyone that tried street drugs is an addict. Obviously not. But the desensitization begins somewhere.

But, no one that dabbles in the occult will become a satanist. I look back on my childhood and the seances, heavy metal rock music, etc. and I am freaked out at the dangers I put myself in. I have one seriously strong Guardian Angel. Thank the Good God.


Quote:
no one that dabbles in the occult will become a satanist.


POOR sentence structure. What I meant was: one that avoids dabbling in the occult will avoid satanism.
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St.Justin



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amasimp wrote:
I'd guess a fair number of us participated in halloween as children. We carved pumpkins, trick-or-treated, and dressed up.

Did that make you satinists or occultists?


I think it only affects those intellectually astute enough to associate candy with the devil.
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Sarah44



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:42 pm    Post subject: What does God's word say? Reply with quote

"Whosoever therefore will be a friend of this world, becometh an enemy of God."
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amasimp



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Oremus pro invicem"]
amasimp wrote:
I'd guess a fair number of us participated in halloween as children. We carved pumpkins, trick-or-treated, and dressed up.

Did that make you satinists or occultists?


That isn't really a solid argument. It is like asking if everyone who drinks beer is an alcoholic or if everyone that tried street drugs is an addict. Obviously not. But the desensitization begins somewhere.

[\quote]


Nor is it a strong argument to suggest the entire celebration is evil because a handful of people decide to pervert a silly secular holiday into something it is not.
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Sarah44



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:36 pm    Post subject: Evil is not silly Reply with quote

When it is well documented that children are sexually assaulted and sadistically tortured in celebration of Samhain/ Halloween, it is not silly. It's not an either/or; people can both enjoy their candy AND pray for the victims.
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amasimp



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Evil is not silly Reply with quote

Sarah44 wrote:
When it is well documented that children are sexually assaulted and sadistically tortured in celebration of Samhain/ Halloween, it is not silly. It's not an either/or; people can both enjoy their candy AND pray for the victims.


Children are sexually assaulted every day of the year. That is horrible and I will not deny that. The fact is, that 99.9999% percent of children participate without incident./
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penitent99



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are none so blind as those who will not see.
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fidei



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My family and I lived in the United States for 14 months some years ago.

There was, and still is, much about the United States that I loved.

However, I found the obsession with Halloween disturbing.
Having kids wander from house to house dressed as witches and devils, and virtually demanding candy or they would do something nasty, seems to me to send entirely the wrong message.

I was puzzled as to why none of the churches seemed to mind this practice.

I think Americans should re-think their easy acceptance of Halloween. I don't think it sits well with our Catholic faith.

It has unfortunately spread my country and I still find it just as disturbing.
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Hark the Harold



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

St.Justin wrote:
amasimp wrote:
I'd guess a fair number of us participated in halloween as children. We carved pumpkins, trick-or-treated, and dressed up.

Did that make you satinists or occultists?


I think it only affects those intellectually astute enough to associate candy with the devil.




Yea, I guess getting all the simpltons to dress up all "spooky" and buy into the the whole thing would have worked better if all the kids got cat box droppings For treats instead. That would give'em something to look forward to year after year even more!!! Being intellectually astute, let me struggle to grasp your caveman logic.....Halloween = candy...OK.....So that must mean Christmas = presents???!! Now I think I DO understand where your coming from!!! Homer
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:10 pm    Post subject: No Trick or Treat Please Reply with quote

I can't believe how some people on this forum prevaricate about the merits of Halloween and by association the highly questionable practice of 'Trick or Treat.'

Not only does the Holy Father condemn the custom, but I very much doubt whether any traditional priest would endorse it. Some of you should be bothered to ask one.

With respect to our US cousins, here in Australia, even many non-Catholics condemn the day as yet another hackneyed, over-commercialised imported tradition that we don't want or need.

I have just put up a sign on my front door that states in big bold letters, 'No Trick or Treat Please. Halloween is Wrong! I have then added some dot points in smaller letters: Un-Christian, Un-Australian, Un-Safe.

Hopefully this will deter the hordes of the macabre 'Damned' that swarm my neighbourhood before nightfall today.

Meanwhile my children are playing happily in the back yard and looking forward to All Souls Day (with the accompanying school holiday) when they are free to dress up as angels and saints.
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St.Justin



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hark the Harold wrote:


Yea, I guess getting all the simpltons to dress up all "spooky" and buy into the the whole thing would have worked better if all the kids got cat box droppings For treats instead. That would give'em something to look forward to year after year even more!!! Being intellectually astute, let me struggle to grasp your caveman logic.....Halloween = candy...OK.....So that must mean Christmas = presents???!! Now I think I DO understand where your coming from!!! Homer


If I would have just known Casper the Friendly Ghost was a member of the occult. Not many kids dress as occult images. And in your astuteness you got it right "Halloween = candy". The occult side of this if it affects anyone it is only the adults with weird minds.
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Giovanni Maria Mastai-Fer



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

penitent99 wrote:
There are none so blind as those who will not see.



Penitent, I love your post. Between this thread & the one about Fr. le Roux's letter, I was rolling my eyes, and was tempted to just write something like, "you're an imbecile" (at least on the other thread), and never bother with AQ again, if this is the mentality of so many members. But your post is perfect - straight, to the point, accurate, and it says it all.
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St.Justin



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:10 pm    Post subject: Re: No Trick or Treat Please Reply with quote

Vox Gladius wrote:

Meanwhile my children are playing happily in the back yard and looking forward to All Souls Day (with the accompanying school holiday) when they are free to dress up as angels and saints.

Talk about make believe(except in a few rare case)
Do you want your kids to think all the have to do is dress up and they become angels?
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Vox Gladius



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

St.Justin
Quote:
Talk about make believe(except in a few rare case)
Do you want your kids to think all the have to do is dress up and they become angels?


How on earth did you draw that extraordinary conclusion?
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St.Justin



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vox Gladius wrote:
St.Justin
Quote:
Talk about make believe(except in a few rare case)
Do you want your kids to think all the have to do is dress up and they become angels?


How on earth did you draw that extraordinary conclusion?


The same way that you seem to think dressing up as casper and princesses and asking for candy are an occult thing.
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Hark the Harold



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

St.Justin wrote:
Hark the Harold wrote:


Yea, I guess getting all the simpltons to dress up all "spooky" and buy into the the whole thing would have worked better if all the kids got cat box droppings For treats instead. That would give'em something to look forward to year after year even more!!! Being intellectually astute, let me struggle to grasp your caveman logic.....Halloween = candy...OK.....So that must mean Christmas = presents???!! Now I think I DO understand where your coming from!!! Homer


If I would have just known Casper the Friendly Ghost was a member of the occult. Not many kids dress as occult images. And in your astuteness you got it right "Halloween = candy". The occult side of this if it affects anyone it is only the adults with weird minds.




Quote:If I would have just known Casper the Friendly Ghost was a member of the occult.



You wouldn't have reported him for the flaming bag of poo and the eggs on the side of your house!!! Along with searching through the bag for intentional foreign objects planted to make your kid's mouths bleed, great traditions to honor and keep!!! ( Look a little closer! Cheap seal-a-meals=formerly safe candy bars now suspect!.....but heeeeey it's only the kids, roll the dice, you can always have more, can't you???!!



Quote: Not many kids dress as occult images.

UUUUUghh!!!.......You should really set that Atari pong control down long enough to think before you grunt!! Snopes sez the #2 costume for 2009 for the kiddies and # 1 for adults IS........TaDa!! A WITCH!!!! nope nuthin occultic about them, nope nuthin!!!


Quote:And in your astuteness you got it right "Halloween = candy".

NOOOOO......in my astuteness I got YOU right!!


Quote:The occult side of this if it affects anyone it is only the adults with weird minds.

I know, I know, but you could lessen the effects on yourself by putting down last year's garbage bag full of candy long enough to at least TRY to stabilize your blood sugar level, now couldn't you???!!
Homer
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Hark the Harold



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:57 pm    Post subject: Re: No Trick or Treat Please Reply with quote

St.Justin wrote:
Vox Gladius wrote:

Meanwhile my children are playing happily in the back yard and looking forward to All Souls Day (with the accompanying school holiday) when they are free to dress up as angels and saints.

Talk about make believe(except in a few rare case)
Do you want your kids to think all the have to do is dress up and they become angels?



Quote:Talk about make believe

Apparently for you it is and I don"t know where you go to church, but where I go, it's looked forward to, and celebrated for the feast that it is........DON'T WORRY!! There's plenty of CANDY!!!
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:02 pm    Post subject: Re: No Trick or Treat Please Reply with quote

Hark the Harold wrote:
St.Justin wrote:
Vox Gladius wrote:

Meanwhile my children are playing happily in the back yard and looking forward to All Souls Day (with the accompanying school holiday) when they are free to dress up as angels and saints.

Talk about make believe(except in a few rare case)
Do you want your kids to think all the have to do is dress up and they become angels?



Quote:Talk about make believe

Apparently for you it is and I don"t know where you go to church, but where I go, it's looked forward to, and celebrated for the feast that it is........DON'T WORRY!! There's plenty of CANDY!!!


Well for a start at my Church no one can become an Angel. My kids were taught they had to work at becoming a Saint.
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Vox Gladius



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

St.Justin
Quote:
The same way that you seem to think dressing up as casper and princesses and asking for candy are an occult thing.


Wow - Halloween sounds so harmless when you put it that way. What was I thinking? So long as they are dressed as princesses and friendly ghosts when they go begging for food from complete strangers in the course of a pagan ritual antithetical to the Catholic Faith, my kids will be in no kind of danger at all.

I'm sure all of Science trembles before the searing logic of that argument.
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St.Justin



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vox Gladius wrote:


the course of a pagan ritual antithetical to the Catholic Faith, my kids will be in no kind of danger at all.



What pagan ritual? I have never seen, heard or read of any pagan ritual that involved walking up and down the street with your parents or friends and asking for candy.
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Hark the Harold



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:13 pm    Post subject: Re: No Trick or Treat Please Reply with quote

St.Justin wrote:
Hark the Harold wrote:
St.Justin wrote:
Vox Gladius wrote:

Meanwhile my children are playing happily in the back yard and looking forward to All Souls Day (with the accompanying school holiday) when they are free to dress up as angels and saints.

Talk about make believe(except in a few rare case)
Do you want your kids to think all the have to do is dress up and they become angels?



Quote:Talk about make believe

Apparently for you it is and I don"t know where you go to church, but where I go, it's looked forward to, and celebrated for the feast that it is........DON'T WORRY!! There's plenty of CANDY!!!


Well for a start at my Church no one can become an Angel. My kids were taught they had to work at becoming a Saint.




SLOOOOW DOOOOOWN SAILOR BOB!!!!!! The man from Down Under clearly said "dress up as angels," NOT metaphysically alter their atomic structures!!! Sorry, too many multiple-syllable words for ya???!! Homer
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:16 pm    Post subject: Re: No Trick or Treat Please Reply with quote

[quote="Hark the Harold"

SLOOOOW DOOOOOWN SAILOR BOB!!!!!! The man from Down Under clearly said "dress up as angels," NOT metaphysically alter their atomic structures!!! Sorry, too many multiple-syllable words for ya???!! Homer [/quote]

I am Southern and syllables do tend to run together. It does make communication difficult when you speak different languages.
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Hark the Harold



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:23 pm    Post subject: Re: No Trick or Treat Please Reply with quote

St.Justin wrote:
[quote="Hark the Harold"

SLOOOOW DOOOOOWN SAILOR BOB!!!!!! The man from Down Under clearly said "dress up as angels," NOT metaphysically alter their atomic structures!!! Sorry, too many multiple-syllable words for ya???!! Homer


I am Southern and syllables do tend to run together. It does make communication difficult when you speak different languages.[/quote]




I'm so sorry.....this explains alot.......you can most likely attain english lesson, for a minimal cost at your local immigration office!!! G-O-O-D L-U-C-K T-O Y-O-U!!! Homer
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.sspx.org/Seasonal/history_of_halloween.htm

A HISTORY OF HALLOWEEN

Its pagan origin, sanctification by Catholicism and return to paganism in modern times

The story of Halloween is very old, going back to the days of the Druids1 in England, where in fact, most of the secular customs that are now performed during Halloween were first practiced. The Druids practiced many superstitious customs depending on their beliefs. They had two big feast days and one of these was their New Year’s Eve which was celebrated around the 31st of October. On this day they believed that all those who had died during the past year would rise from their graves and come to spend a last evening by the hearth where they had spent their days of the past. The Druids believed that at midnight all these souls would walk out of the town to be taken by the Lord of Death to the afterlife from where the souls would be able to tranmigrate2. They also feared that if these souls were able to recognize them, that they would drag them down into the afterlife with them. The townspeople therefore wore costumes so as not to be recognizable. They wore these costumes as they escorted the souls of the dead out to meet the Lord of Death. It is easy to see how the custom of wearing costumes (i.e., of demons, witches, etc.) on Halloween has never had anything to do with those customs of Christianity!

When Catholicism came to England and Ireland, it encountered this very popular pagan custom. The popes and bishops became aware that they were going to have to combat this particular custom by stringent means. They therefore set this day aside in honor of the saints in Heaven and the following day as a day of prayer for the souls of all the deceased. The Church made up a whole beautiful set of customs and prayers to be done for the honor of the saints and the relief of the souls in Purgatory. The Litany of the Saints was chanted and the living went to the cemetery to pray at the graveside of their dearly beloved deceased. The feast of All Hallow’s Eve became thus a most holy day.

But due to the popularity of the pagan customs, there were still many people who were not ready to abandon this ugly ritual and they persecuted the Catholics who attempted to fulfill the customs of the Church. The Church tried to draw these troublemakers away from their mischief by staging morality plays and presenting skits on the lives of the saints. But to no avail; the mischief makers would stand behind trees taunting the praying Christians, howling and hooting so as to frighten them from the graves. They would do all sorts of nasty tricks, and all of sorts of strange things would happen. It was not unusual for a farmer to find his livestock spread all over the countryside the following day or even up in the loft of his barn! Most of these nasty pranks were blamed on witches, those women who had sold themselves to the Devil in life, and who returned on brooms supplied by the Lord of Death in order to gather up those souls who would be dragged thenceforth into their afterlife. Those who believed in these witches would set small piles of hay on fire and wave piles in the air to ward off the witches from snatching them up and to frighten them away from their livestock. We see here the two sets of rituals established, the one all glowing with the beauty of Holy Mother Church, the other rank with ugly and ignorant foolishness.

In a gesture of mutual charity, the Christian beggars of the towns would go from door to door asking for food for which they would, in exchange, pray for souls of the departed of that family. Eventually, the prayers were exchanged for what were called soul cakes, and later because one women wished the beggars to remember the eternity of life, pierced her soul cakes for the beggars, thus as tradition tells us, being responsible for the first donuts.

After hundreds of years of the superstitions of the pagans still being subtly supported by the Devil in diverse ways, the Protestant Reformation came along and blew life into the uglier side of the Halloween rituals. The Protestants went about knocking upon doors of Catholic families as if they were beggars coming for the soul cakes. The Catholics were greeted by cold water or other nasty tricks. One can see again the unCatholic origin of this standard which is so widely practiced now on Halloween.

The mischievous tricks of the Halloween pranksters had become so out of hand by the days of World War II, that in fact, the day was known as Mischief Night. And like anything and everything that honors the Devil and detracts from the glory due to God, the ugly customs of the pagan holiday of Halloween were promoted and spread and practiced in greater malice until they became what we now know them to be.

We can easily see simply by reading the history of this holiday that what had been a pagan custom was combated by the Church for an honorable and charitable reason and how the Devil has used it in a perverted manner in order to destroy, if possible, what should be a ritual of beautiful custom. We have a duty, as Catholics, to practice ONLY those rituals designed for the honor of God and the relief of the suffering souls and given to us by Holy Mother Church as a means of furthering our salvation also. To partake in the practice of pagan and devil-honoring rituals is to offend God in a most demeaning way. We should therefore strive rather to return to the beautiful customs of our forefathers and practice in its entirety and with all the purity of its original intention, the customs of All Hallow’s Eve.

FOOTNOTES

1. The Druids were a people practicing a most cruel and inhumane paganism, similar to that of the barbaric Aztecs.
2. Transmigration: The belief that a soul cam move from one object or being to another. Hindus also believe in this, claiming that those who live well will return to their next life in a body of higher caste and that those who lived badly will return as animals or insects or such like.
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St.Justin



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quo Vadis Petre wrote:
http://www.sspx.org/Seasonal/history_of_halloween.htm

A HISTORY OF HALLOWEEN


I can tell you that the same type of logic is used by protestants to prove Catholicism is pagan.

We use pagan names and pagan dates and pagan symbols. Guilt by association.

Look at what you posted and then show me how kids trickor treating are the same thing.
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Quo Vadis Petre



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You tell me how trick or treating is honoring All Hallow's Eve. Trick or treating is useless at best, very bad at worst.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quo Vadis Petre wrote:
You tell me how trick or treating is honoring All Hallow's Eve.


Nobody ever said it was.
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Hark the Harold



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quo Vadis Petre wrote:
http://www.sspx.org/Seasonal/history_of_halloween.htm

A HISTORY OF HALLOWEEN

Its pagan origin, sanctification by Catholicism and return to paganism in modern times

The story of Halloween is very old, going back to the days of the Druids1 in England, where in fact, most of the secular customs that are now performed during Halloween were first practiced. The Druids practiced many superstitious customs depending on their beliefs. They had two big feast days and one of these was their New Year’s Eve which was celebrated around the 31st of October. On this day they believed that all those who had died during the past year would rise from their graves and come to spend a last evening by the hearth where they had spent their days of the past. The Druids believed that at midnight all these souls would walk out of the town to be taken by the Lord of Death to the afterlife from where the souls would be able to tranmigrate2. They also feared that if these souls were able to recognize them, that they would drag them down into the afterlife with them. The townspeople therefore wore costumes so as not to be recognizable. They wore these costumes as they escorted the souls of the dead out to meet the Lord of Death. It is easy to see how the custom of wearing costumes (i.e., of demons, witches, etc.) on Halloween has never had anything to do with those customs of Christianity!

When Catholicism came to England and Ireland, it encountered this very popular pagan custom. The popes and bishops became aware that they were going to have to combat this particular custom by stringent means. They therefore set this day aside in honor of the saints in Heaven and the following day as a day of prayer for the souls of all the deceased. The Church made up a whole beautiful set of customs and prayers to be done for the honor of the saints and the relief of the souls in Purgatory. The Litany of the Saints was chanted and the living went to the cemetery to pray at the graveside of their dearly beloved deceased. The feast of All Hallow’s Eve became thus a most holy day.

But due to the popularity of the pagan customs, there were still many people who were not ready to abandon this ugly ritual and they persecuted the Catholics who attempted to fulfill the customs of the Church. The Church tried to draw these troublemakers away from their mischief by staging morality plays and presenting skits on the lives of the saints. But to no avail; the mischief makers would stand behind trees taunting the praying Christians, howling and hooting so as to frighten them from the graves. They would do all sorts of nasty tricks, and all of sorts of strange things would happen. It was not unusual for a farmer to find his livestock spread all over the countryside the following day or even up in the loft of his barn! Most of these nasty pranks were blamed on witches, those women who had sold themselves to the Devil in life, and who returned on brooms supplied by the Lord of Death in order to gather up those souls who would be dragged thenceforth into their afterlife. Those who believed in these witches would set small piles of hay on fire and wave piles in the air to ward off the witches from snatching them up and to frighten them away from their livestock. We see here the two sets of rituals established, the one all glowing with the beauty of Holy Mother Church, the other rank with ugly and ignorant foolishness.

In a gesture of mutual charity, the Christian beggars of the towns would go from door to door asking for food for which they would, in exchange, pray for souls of the departed of that family. Eventually, the prayers were exchanged for what were called soul cakes, and later because one women wished the beggars to remember the eternity of life, pierced her soul cakes for the beggars, thus as tradition tells us, being responsible for the first donuts.

After hundreds of years of the superstitions of the pagans still being subtly supported by the Devil in diverse ways, the Protestant Reformation came along and blew life into the uglier side of the Halloween rituals. The Protestants went about knocking upon doors of Catholic families as if they were beggars coming for the soul cakes. The Catholics were greeted by cold water or other nasty tricks. One can see again the unCatholic origin of this standard which is so widely practiced now on Halloween.

The mischievous tricks of the Halloween pranksters had become so out of hand by the days of World War II, that in fact, the day was known as Mischief Night. And like anything and everything that honors the Devil and detracts from the glory due to God, the ugly customs of the pagan holiday of Halloween were promoted and spread and practiced in greater malice until they became what we now know them to be.

We can easily see simply by reading the history of this holiday that what had been a pagan custom was combated by the Church for an honorable and charitable reason and how the Devil has used it in a perverted manner in order to destroy, if possible, what should be a ritual of beautiful custom. We have a duty, as Catholics, to practice ONLY those rituals designed for the honor of God and the relief of the suffering souls and given to us by Holy Mother Church as a means of furthering our salvation also. To partake in the practice of pagan and devil-honoring rituals is to offend God in a most demeaning way. We should therefore strive rather to return to the beautiful customs of our forefathers and practice in its entirety and with all the purity of its original intention, the customs of All Hallow’s Eve.

FOOTNOTES

1. The Druids were a people practicing a most cruel and inhumane paganism, similar to that of the barbaric Aztecs.
2. Transmigration: The belief that a soul cam move from one object or being to another. Hindus also believe in this, claiming that those who live well will return to their next life in a body of higher caste and that those who lived badly will return as animals or insects or such like.




Thanks Quo,
Excelent article!!! Homer

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Quo Vadis Petre



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're saying, though, then that dressing up as a witch, devil, a ghost, or other such thing while trick or treating is harmless?

The modern trick or treating is a subtle perversion of the old Catholic practices mentioned in the SSPX article, as is evidenced by the costumes always worn.
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Quo Vadis Petre



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, my previous reply was to St.Justin.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many of you older people may be unfamiliar with how Halloween has changed over the last 30 years.

It's now an unspeakably evil thing. The most depraved images and stories are being shown and told to kindergarten kids. It's become an opportunity for the devil to inure young minds to the ugliness of evil.
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Vox Gladius



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:58 pm    Post subject: Wikipedia on Halloween Reply with quote

Halloween (also spelled Hallowe'en) is an annual holiday celebrated on October 31. It has roots in the Celtic festival of Samhain and the Christian holy day of All Saints. It is largely a secular celebration but some have expressed strong feelings about perceived religious overtones.

The colours black and orange have become associated with the celebrations, perhaps because of the darkness of night and the colour of fire or of pumpkins, and maybe because of the vivid contrast this presents for merchandising. Another association is with the jack-o'-lantern. Halloween activities include trick-or-treating, wearing costumes and attending costume parties, ghost tours, bonfires, visiting haunted attractions, pranks, telling scary stories, and watching horror films.

History


Historian Nicholas Rogers, exploring the origins of Halloween, notes that while "[s]ome folklorists have detected its origins in the Roman feast of Pomona, the goddess of fruits and seeds, or in the festival of the dead called Parentalia, [it is] more typically [l]inked to the celtic festival of Samhain or Samuin (pronounced sow-an or sow-in)",which is derived from Old Irish and means roughly "summer's end". A similar festival was held by the ancient Britons and is known as Calan Gaeaf (pronounced kalan-geyf).

The festival of Samhain celebrates the end of the "lighter half" of the year and beginning of the "darker half", and is sometimes regarded as the "Celtic New Year".

The celebration has some elements of a festival of the dead. The ancient Celts believed that the border between this world and the Otherworld became thin on Samhain, allowing spirits (both harmless and harmful) to pass through. The family's ancestors were honoured and invited home whilst harmful spirits were warded off. It is believed that the need to ward off harmful spirits led to the wearing of costumes and masks. Their purpose was to disguise oneself as a harmful spirit and thus avoid harm. In Scotland the spirits were impersonated by young men dressed in white with masked, veiled or blackened faces. Samhain was also a time to take stock of food supplies and slaughter livestock for winter stores. Bonfires played a large part in the festivities. All other fires were doused and each home lit their hearth from the bonfire. The bones of slaughtered livestock were cast into its flames. Sometimes two bonfires would be built side-by-side, and people and their livestock would walk between them as a cleansing ritual.

Another common practise was divination, which often involved the use of food and drink.

The name 'Halloween' and many of its present-day traditions derive from the Old English era.

Origin of name

The term Halloween, originally spelled Hallowe’en, is shortened from All Hallows' Even – e'en is a shortening of even, which is a shortening of evening. This is ultimately derived from the Old English Eallra Hālgena ǣfen. It is now known as "Eve of" All Saints' Day, which is November 1st.

A time of pagan festivities, Popes Gregory III (731–741) and Gregory IV (827–844) tried to supplant it with the Christian holiday (All Saints' Day) by moving it from May 13 to November 1.

In the 800s, the Church measured the day as starting at sunset, in accordance with the Florentine calendar. Although All Saints' Day is now considered to occur one day after Halloween, the two holidays were once celebrated on the same day.

Symbols

A traditional Irish halloween Jack-o'-lantern from the early 20th century on display in the Museum of Country Life, Ireland.

On All Hallows’ eve, many Irish and Scottish people have traditionally placed a candle on their western window sill to honor the departed. Other traditions include carving lanterns from turnips or rutabagas, sometimes with faces on them, as is done in the modern tradition of carving pumpkins. Welsh, Irish and British myth are full of legends of the Brazen Head, which may be a folk memory of the ancient Celtic practice of headhunting[citation needed]. The heads of enemies may have decorated shrines, and there are tales of the heads of honored warriors continuing to speak their wisdom after death. The carving of pumpkins is associated with Halloween in North America where pumpkins are both readily available and much larger- making them easier to carve than turnips. Many families that celebrate Halloween carve a pumpkin into a frightening or comical face and place it on their doorstep after dark. The American tradition of carving pumpkins preceded the Great Famine period of Irish immigration and was originally associated with harvest time in general, not becoming specifically associated with Halloween until the mid-to-late 1800s.

The imagery surrounding Halloween is largely a mix of the Halloween season itself, works of Gothic and horror literature, in particular the novels Frankenstein and Dracula, and nearly a century of work from American filmmakers and graphic artists, and British Hammer Horror productions, also a rather commercialized take on the dark and mysterious. Modern Halloween imagery tends to involve death, evil, the occult, magic, or mythical monsters. Traditional characters include the Devil, the Grim Reaper, ghosts, ghouls, demons, witches, goblins, vampires, werewolves, zombies, skeletons, black cats, spiders, bats, and crows.

Particularly in America, symbolism is inspired by classic horror films (which contain fictional figures like Frankenstein's monster and The Mummy). Elements of the autumn season, such as pumpkins, corn husks, and scarecrows, are also prevalent. Homes are often decorated with these types of symbols around Halloween.

The two main colors associated with Halloween are orange and black.

Trick-or-treating and guising


Trick-or-treating is a customary celebration for children on Halloween. Children go in costume from house to house, asking for treats such as candy or sometimes money, with the question, "Trick or treat?" The word "trick" refers to a (mostly idle) threat to perform mischief on the homeowners or their property if no treat is given. In some parts of Ireland and Scotland children still go guising. In this custom the child performs some sort of show, i.e. sings a song or tells a ghost story, in order to earn their treats.

Costumes

Halloween costumes are traditionally those of monsters such as ghosts, skeletons, witches, and devils. They are said to be used to scare off demons. Costumes are also based on themes other than traditional horror, such as those of characters from television shows, movies, and other pop culture icons.

Costume sales

BIGresearch conducted a survey for the National Retail Federation in the United States and found that 53.3% of consumers planned to buy a costume for Halloween 2005, spending $38.11 on average (up $10 from the year before). They were also expected to spend $4.96 billion in 2006, up significantly from just $3.3 billion the previous year.

In North America, Christian attitudes towards Halloween are quite diverse. In the Anglican Church, some dioceses have chosen to emphasize the Christian traditions of All Saints’ Day, while some other Protestants celebrate the holiday as Reformation Day, a day to remember the Protestant Reformation.

Many Christians ascribe no negative significance to Halloween, treating it as a purely secular holiday devoted to celebrating "imaginary spooks" and handing out candy. Halloween celebrations are common among Roman Catholic parochial schools throughout North America and in Ireland. In fact, the Roman Catholic Church sees Halloween as having a Christian connection.[39] Father Gabriele Amorth, a Vatican-appointed exorcist in Rome, has said, "[I]f English and American children like to dress up as witches and devils on one night of the year that is not a problem. If it is just a game, there is no harm in that."

Most Christians hold the view that the tradition is far from being "satanic" in origin or practice and that it holds no threat to the spiritual lives of children: being taught about death and mortality, and the ways of the Celtic ancestors actually being a valuable life lesson and a part of many of their parishioners' heritage. Other Christians feel concerned about Halloween, and reject the holiday because they believe it trivializes (and celebrates) "the occult" and what they perceive as evil. A response among some fundamentalists in recent years has been the use of Hell houses or themed pamphlets (such as those of Jack T. Chick) which attempt to make use of Halloween as an opportunity for evangelism.

Some consider Halloween to be completely incompatible with the Christian faith because of its origin as a pagan "Festival of the Dead." In more recent years, the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Boston has organized a "Saint Fest" on the holiday. Many contemporary Protestant churches view Halloween as a fun event for children, holding events in their churches where children and their parents can dress up, play games, and get candy. Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate Halloween for they believe anything that originated from a pagan holiday should not be celebrated by true Christians.

Religions other than Christianity also have varied views on Halloween. Celtic Pagans consider the season a holy time of year. Celtic Reconstructionists, and others who maintain ancestral customs, make offerings to the Gods and the ancestors.

Some Wiccans feel that the tradition is offensive to "real witches" for promoting stereotypical caricatures of "wicked witches".

In Arab countries where it is celebrated, devotion is given to St. Barbara.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween
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LadyM



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Savonarola"]Many of you older people may be unfamiliar with how Halloween has changed over the last 30 years.

It's now an unspeakably evil thing. The most depraved images and stories are being shown and told to kindergarten kids. It's become an opportunity for the devil to inure young minds to the ugliness of evil.[/quot

For those with the inclination to promote evil, they do not have to wait for Holloween

One evening of dressing up, going out with the family to gather candy, is not going to "corrupt" the minds of the children.
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Recusant



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I have seen as a 25 year old halloween is nowadays about sex for my age groups all the costumes for the girls are slutty things. Its more like a bordello than a black mass.
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Jack007



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before this thread became another hallmark of AQ lack of civility...

Could no soul comment on the REAL news?

When was the last time YOU could recall the Pope daring to take on the POPULAR culture?

While some of you were engaged in SHOUTING matches... (for the love of Mary will a board mod PLEASE help out the poor guy with the BOLD FONT! I had to quit reading his posts after the third one),
...the Holy Father was doing his JOB!
Now, since this isn't the 1950's (thank God), its not an easy one.
At the very LEAST, let us offer him our support and prayers.
Talk about a lonely place to be...attack the "harmless fun" of Halloween. That will win you all kinds of friends. I can hear it now..."That foolish old man in Rome spoke out against Halloween today. Somebody probably told him that everyday folks were offering candy to little children, instead of pedophile priests."

And yes, some make way too much of the "dangers" of Halloween. Kids aren't going to adopt the occult just because they dressed up as goblins a few times when they were young. I sure didn't.
In an ideal world we wouldn't celebrate Halloween. Since its not, I'm sure with good catechesis and EXAMPLE, our kids won't turn into Charlie Manson.
I HAVE seen an incredible surge in holidays, not just this one, and I truly believe the reasons are all $$$.
I also must SECOND the comment:
Quote:
Its more like a bordello than a black mass.


That I fear, is very true, and of MUCH higher concern to me!

Ahhh...I feel better now. Nothing like a little jump into the AQ fray.
And now for a little sip of my Grand Marnier...
Cheers!

Jack in KC
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LordBridey



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Catholics, we should be aware of the diversion that is Halloween. Halloween is completely devoid of the religous significance of All Saint's Day. All Saint's Day is a glorious Feast Day of the Church and should be celebrated as such.

The entire focus should be on the saints, whose sanctity we are obliged to emulate. Our knowledge of their lives can only edify us. Their intercession can only benefit us.

When I was coming up in the 60's and 70's, trick or treating was all I knew. I had no idea that it was associated with a Holy Feast Day of the Chuch.

I feel that I missed out. As Caspar or Batman or a pirate I was oblivious to the fact that the saints were my brothers and sisters in Christ and that I had recourse through them. That, by knowing them, I could know Christ even more.

Halloween completely obfuscates these incredibly potent facts.

My family has virtually obliterated the secular notion of Halloween. Through homeschooling groups or visionary parishes, Halloween has been replaced by a great All Saints Party. The children will dress up as a saints, attend mass, and share with one another who they are attempting to be. For their efforts copious amounts of candy will be had. They will learn a lot about the great people Holy Mother Church has produced.
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Giovanni Maria Mastai-Fer



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jack007 wrote:
Could no soul comment on the REAL news?

When was the last time YOU could recall the Pope daring to take on the POPULAR culture?

...the Holy Father was doing his JOB!
Now, since this isn't the 1950's (thank God), its not an easy one.
At the very LEAST, let us offer him our support and prayers.
Talk about a lonely place to be...attack the "harmless fun" of Halloween. That will win you all kinds of friends. I can hear it now..."That foolish old man in Rome spoke out against Halloween today."
Jack in KC


Good point, Jack. It is incredible to me that in one of the few times the Pope actually does say something unpopular to the masses but consistent with Tradition, the response on AQ, which (I thought) is supposed to be a Traditional Catholic forum, is to act like the Pope is being ridiculous.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see."*
(*my new favorite response on AQ, by penitent99)
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dcs



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, the Church did not "baptize" a pagan feast, rather it was the other way around. The pagans moved their festivals to coincide with the Christian holiday:
http://raphael.doxos.com/comments.php?id=2494_0_1_0_C
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