Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:29 pm Post subject: AQ report: Parishioners billed $72,000 for TLM (not a joke)
AQ Report
Latin Mass Community to be charged $72,000 for Mass
By John Grasmeier
Angelqueen.org
April, 2008
Since the release of Summorum Pontificum - Pope Benedict's Motu Proprio removing restrictions on celebrating the Traditional Latin Mass - many local prelates and their diocesan hirelings have gone to great lengths to make life as difficult as possible for Catholics seeking to take advantage of it. From requiring priests to sit for formal Latin language examinations before offering the TLM, to suffering difficult (and even unlawful) permission schemes, traditionalist priests and lay persons have had to suffer all types of dubiously devised obstacles laid out for them by hostile ecclesiastical chains of command.
Some who follow such matters may tend to think they've heard everything regarding these shenanigans. Others, who know better, realize that when it comes to suppressing of the immemorial rite, never think you've heard everything.
In a first (a first not only in anti-TLM hubris, but quite possibly a first in the history of Holy Church) the TLM community in the diocese of Portland Maine billed for their Mass. They are to be charged $72,000 per year, with an initial $18,000 down payment being due on or before July 1st, only a little over 2 1/2 months from the time this is being written.
The 72-grand will go toward the priest's salary and benefits, office supplies and, astoundingly, rental of the church. Should anyone think this a joke or simply too outrageous to be believed, the following is presented:
3 April 2008
Dear Members of the Latin Mass Community:
Christ is Risen & Lives Forever!
As Msgr. Marc Caron, the chancellor of the Diocese, announced to you some weeks past, Bishop Richard Malone has honored me with the newly created position of Chaplain to the Latin Mass Community in south-central Maine effective 1 July 2008. I look forward to serving and working with the faithful who are attached to the extraordinary form of the Roman liturgy. Initially, I will be celebrating Holy Mass in the extraordinary form every Sunday at 8:00 AM at the Basilica of Ss Peter & Paul in Lewiston and at noon at the Cathedral Chapel in Portland. Once the Chaplaincy is underway, additional Masses will be scheduled at other locations as the need increases and other priests are available. I also will be available to you for the celebration of the sacraments and sacramentals, including funerals, as needed.
I am happy to announce that the Bishop has accepted a request for a patron for the Latin Mass Chaplaincy. We will now be known as the :
St. Gregory the Great Latin Mass Chaplaincy
As Bishop Malone announced, the Chaplaincy will be funded by those benefiting from this ministry, and the Chaplaincy will continue only if there is sufficient funding to meet its expenses. The initial annual budget has been prepared, which I have approved and accepted. The budget for the first year is $72,000.00 and includes salary, room & board, health insurance and pension, travel expenses, church rental, office expenses, and other ministy (sic) expenses.
Prior to 1 July, and before the Chaplaincy will begin, we are required to raise from contributions one-quarter of our annual budget, or $18,000.00. This initial funding is necessary to ensure that we will be financially independent and able to meet our weekly ongoing expenses as the Chaplaincy begins and grows. We must begin our fundraising efforts immediately to raise this initial amount. We have established an account at TD Banknorth in Lewiston that will be used exclusively for the Chaplaincy. Contributions to the Chaplaincy should be made by check payable to "St Gregory (the Great) Latin Mass Chaplaincy" and sent to the following address: Latin Mass Chaplaincy, Department of Ministerial Services, P.O. Box 11559, Portland, Maine 04104. Please be as generous as your means allow.
After 1 July collections taken up at all the Masses of the Chaplaincy will go totally to the support of the Chaplaincy. Also the faithful will be able to register with the Chaplaincy and will have their own envelopes come the New Year. I will also be making regular financial reports to the community.
I will be able to join you and address you after Mass on Sunday 20 April 2008 at the Cathedral to enlist your support for the many important tasks we must undertake in order to build the Chaplaincy so that it will be a vital, growing, and long-lasting ministry in the Diocese. I also hope to answer any questions you may have. Unfortunately I may arrive during the Mass as I must complete my duties in Sabattus first. I hope you will be able to stay for a short reception after Mass so that we may become personally acquainted.
I thank all the priests who have served and who will continue to serve you. They have been a blessing from God. I look forward to meeting and serving you. May God prosper the work of our hands.
Sincerely yours in Christ,
Rev. Robert A. Parent
Last edited by servitium on Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
Additional background: This TLM community has been in place for years, and has been refused an (ostensibly free of charge) FSSP priest when they indicated they could provide one willing and able.
The diocese currently has all types of Masses, including Spanish language Masses. Nobody, including the Latinos are billed.
If you wish to call or write:
Roman Catholic Diocese of Portland
510 Ocean Avenue
P.O. 11559
Portland, Me 04104
Telephone: 207.773.6471
Fax: 207.773.0182
Email form on the diocese website can be found HERE
Last edited by servitium on Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:10 pm; edited 2 times in total
There was a time when the laity would have stormed the chancery offices with pitchfolks, torches, tar and feathers over far lesser outrages than this.
(This document needs to be forwarded to PCED immediately, for whatever good it might do. This is sacramental blackmail, a vile malicious abuse for which the bishop and everyone else responsible should be immediately suspended.)
From requiring priests to sit for formal Latin language examinations before offering the TLM
There is something ironic about this. They went out of there way to set up obstacles by discontinuing Latin courses. It came up at the time in the 1970s when they tried to impose pagan Latin and stopped teaching ecclesiastical Latin. So now you have the same modernists requiring an exam on what they conspired NOT to teach.
Simony is usually defined "a deliberate intention of buying or selling for a temporal price such things as are spiritual of annexed unto spirituals". While this definition only speaks of purchase and sale, any exchange of spiritual for temporal things is simoniacal. Nor is the giving of the temporal as the price of the spiritual required for the existence of simony; according to a proposition condemned by Innocent XI (Denzinger-Bannwart, no. 1195) it suffices that the determining motive of the action of one party be the obtaining of compensation from the other.
The various temporal advantages which may be offered for a spiritual favour are, after Gregory the Great, usually divided in three classes. These are: (1) the munus a manu (material advantage), which comprises money, all movable and immovable property, and all rights appreciable in pecuniary value; (2) the munus a lingua (oral advantage) which includes oral commendation, public expressions of approval, moral support in high places; (3) the munus ab obsequio (homage) which consists in subserviency, the rendering of undue services, etc.
The spiritual object includes whatever is conducive to the eternal welfare of the soul, i.e. all supernatural things: sanctifying grace, the sacraments, sacramentals, etc. While according to the natural and Divine laws the term simony is applicable only to the exchange of supernatural treasures for temporal advantages, its meaning has been further extended through ecclesiastical legislation. In order to preclude all danger of simony the Church has forbidden certain dealings which did not fall under Divine prohibition. It is thus unlawful to exchange ecclesiastical benefices by private authority, to accept any payment whatever for holy oils, to sell blessed rosaries or crucifixes. Such objects lose, if sold, all the indulgences previously attached to them (S. Cong. Of Indulg., 12 July, 1847). Simony of ecclesiastical law is, of course a variable element, since the prohibitions of the Church may be abrogated or fall into disuse. Simony whether it be of ecclesiastical or Divine law, may be divided into mental, conventional, and real (simonia mentalis, conventionalis, et realis). In mental simony there is lacking the outward manifestation, or, according to others, the approval on the part of the person to whom a proposal is made. In conventional simony an expressed or tacit agreement is entered upon. It is subdivided into merely conventional, when neither party has fulfilled any of the terms of the agreement, and mixed conventional, when one of the parties has at least partly complied with the assumed obligations. To the latter subdivision may be referred what has been aptly termed "confidential simony", in which an ecclesiastical benefice is procured for a certain person with the understanding that later he will either resign in favour of the one through whom he obtained the position or divide with him the revenues. Simony is called real when the stipulations of the mutual agreement have been either partly or completely carried out by both parties.
To estimate accurately the gravity of simony, which some medieval ecclesiastical writers denounced as the most abominable of crimes, a distinction must be made between the violations of the Divine law, and the dealings contrary to ecclesiastical legislation. Any transgression of the law of God in this matter is, objectively considered, grievous in every instance (mortalis ex toto genere suo). For this kind of simony places on a par things supernatural and things natural, things eternal and things temporal, and constitutes a sacrilegious depreciation of Divine treasures. The sin can become venial only through the absence of the subjective dispositions required for the commission of a grievous offense. The merely ecclesiastical prohibitions, however, do not all and under all circumstances impose a grave obligation. The presumption is that the church authority, which, in this connection, sometimes prohibits actions in themselves indifferent, did not intend the law to be grievously binding in minor details. As he who preaches the gospel "should live by the gospel" (1 Corinthians 9:14) but should also avoid even the appearance of receiving temporal payment for spiritual services, difficulties may arise concerning the propriety or sinfulness of remuneration in certain circumstances. The ecclesiastic may certainly receive what is offered to him on the occasion of spiritual ministrations, but he cannot accept any payment for the same. The celebration of Mass for money would, consequently, be sinful; but it is perfectly legitimate to accept a stipend offered on such occasion for the support of the celebrant. The amount of the stipend, varying for different times and countries, is usually fixed by ecclesiastical authority (SEE STIPEND). It is allowed to accept it even should the priest be otherwise well-to-do; for he has a right to live from the altar and should avoid becoming obnoxious to other members of the gy. It is simoniacal to accept payment for the exercise of ecclesiastical jurisdiction, e.g., the granting of dispensations; but there is nothing improper in demanding from the applicants for matrimonial dispensations a contribution intended partly as a chancery fee and partly as a salutary fine calculated to prevent the too frequent recurrence of such requests. It is likewise simony to accept temporal compensation for admission into a religious order; but contributions made by candidates to defray the expenses of their novitiate as well as the dowry required by some female orders are not included in this prohibition.
In regard to the parish clergy, the poorer the church, the more urgent is the obligation incumbent upon the faithful to support them. In the fulfilment of this duty local law and custom ought to be observed. The Second Plenary Council of Baltimore has framed the following decrees for the United States: (1) The priest may accept what is freely offered after the administration of baptism or matrimony, but should refrain from asking anything (no. 221). (2) The confessor is never allowed to apply to his own use pecuniary penances, nor may he ask or accept anything from the penitent in compensation of his services. Even voluntary gifts must be refused, and the offering of Mass stipends in the sacred tribunal cannot be permitted (no. 289). (3) The poor who cannot be buried at their own expense should receive free burial (no. 393). The Second and Third action of a compulsory contribution at the church entrance from the faithful who wish to hear Mass on Sundays and Holy Days (Conc. Plen. Balt. II, no 397; Conc. Plen. Balt. III, no 288). As this practice continued in existence in many churches until very recently, a circular letter addressed 29 Sept., 1911, by the Apostolic Delegate to the archbishops and bishops of the United States, again condemns the custom and requests the ordinaries to suppress it wherever found in existence.
To uproot the evil of simony so prevalent during the Middle Ages, the Church decreed the severest penalties against its perpetrators. Pope Julius II declared simoniacal papal elections invalid, an enactment which has since been rescinded, however, by Pope Pius X (Constitution "Vacante BLEEP!", 25 Dec., 1904, tit. II, cap. Vi, in "Canoniste Contemp.", XXXII, 1909, 291). The collation of a benefice is void if, in obtaining it, the appointee either committed simony himself, or at least tacitly approved of its commission by a third party. Should he have taken possession, he is bound to resign and restore all the revenues received during his tenure. Excommunication simply reserved to the Apostolic See is pronounced in the Constitution "Apostolicae Sedis" (12 Oct., 1869): (1) against persons guilty of real simony in any benefices and against their accomplices; (2) against any persons, whatsoever their dignity, guilty of confidential simony in any benefices; (3) against such as are guilty of simony by purchasing or selling admission into a religious order; (4) against all persons inferior to the bishops, who derive gain (quaestum facientes) from indulgences and other spiritual graces; (5) against those who, collecting stipends for Masses, realize a profit on them by having the Masses celebrated in places where smaller stipends are usually given. The last-mentioned provision was supplemented by subsequent decrees of the Sacred Congregation of the Council. The Decree "Vigilanti" (25 May, 1893) forbade the practice indulged in by some booksellers of receiving stipends and offering exclusively books and subscriptions to periodicals to the celebrant of the Masses. The Decree "Ut Debita" (11 May, 1904) condemned the arrangements according to which the guardians of shrines sometimes devoted the offerings originally intended for Masses partly to other pious purposes. The offenders against the two decrees just mentioned incur suspension ipso facto from their functions if they are in sacred orders; inability to receive higher orders if they are clerics inferior to the priests; excommunication of pronounced sentence (latae sententiae) if they belong to the laity.
Simony is usually defined "a deliberate intention of buying or selling for a temporal price such things as are spiritual or annexed unto spirituals". While this definition only speaks of purchase and sale, any exchange of spiritual for temporal things is simoniacal. Nor is the giving of the temporal as the price of the spiritual required for the existence of simony; according to a proposition condemned by Innocent XI (Denzinger-Bannwart, no. 1195) it suffices that the determining motive of the action of one party be the obtaining of compensation from the other.
...The spiritual object includes whatever is conducive to the eternal welfare of the soul, i.e. all supernatural things: sanctifying grace, the sacraments, sacramentals, etc.
Somebody in Maine needs to contact the St. Joseph Foundation IMMEDIATELY about this case.
We consulted them a long time ago about a possible case of simony in our diocese. They told us at the time that in canon law, one does NOT have to prove simony but merely prove the appearance of simony. At the time, we had no hope that our case would have been taken seriously in church courts.
However, TODAY, given that the Maine diocese likely does NOT charge any other mass association such outrageous fees, this IS a clear-cut, slam dunk case of the appearance of simony, and given that it is a bald-faced attempt to circumvent Summorum Pontificum, this case WILL be heard by Rome, and it WILL be acted upon, IF someone brings this forward in canonical courts.
PLEASE, someone in Maine, bring this case forward immediately.
Serv, could we organize a fund-raiser here to help defray the costs to get the St. Joseph Foundation involved in this?
To pay it would be simony. I was not sure which grave sin it represents to demand the payment itself, but you are correct, that too is simony:
An extra charge for a priest who knows how to say Mass and perform the sacraments in Latin??? You realize they are changing extra for what every priest knew how to do before Vatican II? And what they were teaching 14-year-old boys when I was in high school for less than a thousand dollars a year.
This is in addition to about the $5,000,000.00 that it costs for a pervert modernist cleric who only knows how to say Mass in English, taking into account court, legal, and psychiatric fees, travel expenses for lawyers, canon lawyers' dining fees, counseling services for victims, etc.
I understand for around $40K per year these days a Catholic college education is being offered WITHOUT instruction in ecclesiastical Latin, Thomistic philosophy, or Catholic theology. Go figure. Maybe Georgetown, Notre Dame, and Boston College will start charging Catholic students extra for this.
What's next, 20% service charge for the Last Gospel and Leonine Prayers?
I manage to run a whole parish, including priest's "salary" and "diocesan levy", on the Sterling equivalent of US$44,000 p.a. - and that's in the south of England where real estate and local taxes are mega-expensive and gasoline is the equivalent of $10 per gallon!!!
Is this priest lining his own pockets with a budget of $72,000 p.a.? Has he been reading about the guy who made oodles out of phoney exorcisms?
If I was a member of that Latin Mass Community I would be demanding to see a breakdown of his budget and justification for every line of it.
I manage to run a whole parish, including priest's "salary" and "diocesan levy", on the Sterling equivalent of US$44,000 p.a. - and that's in the south of England where real estate and local taxes are mega-expensive and gasoline is the equivalent of $10 per gallon!!!
There was an English-only modernist priest in Connecticut who was clearing about 2 million a year or so.
Some years back we thought it a little over the top that the priest college president was collecting $200K per year (and he did not know how to say Mass in Latin or, at least, claimed not to and denied the students any opportunity to learn how by hiring non-Catholics for the Classics department). There were priests years ago who would do ALL of these things virtually for free, almost for bread and water.
Can you imagine Edmund Campion or Robert Persons, before they ducked in the hole, handing over a tab: "By the way, Madam, here's the bill."
Joined: 30 Mar 2007 Posts: 356 Location: California, with regrets
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject:
"After 1 July collections taken up at all the Masses of the Chaplaincy will go totally to the support of the Chaplaincy."
Really? And not a penny to the chancery? Sign me up!
I'm joking, of course. Yes, this story smacks of simony, and yes, it's an outrage to be forced to "rent" the church.
But one of the biggest problems I have when I put money on the plate at our diocesan TLM is: how much of this will my bishop get his hands on, and what heretical programs will he fund with it? I think many of us would give more generously if we didn't have these questions bugging us.
Praying that the good trads in Maine will have all their spiritual needs met without having to succumb to extortion.... _________________ There's no indult and there never was.
I thought this case sounded familiar; Fr. Z. blogged about this on his WDTPRS blog:
Quote:
28 February 2008
Portland, Maine: Bp. Malone implements Summorum Pontificum
CATEGORY: SESSIUNCULUM — Fr. John Zuhlsdorf @ 7:06 am
I received the following by e-mail. There is some news about the implementation of Summorum Pontificum at the Cathedral of Portland, Maine.
Let us have a glance with my emphases and comments.
Quote:
February 24, 2008
Dear Friends of the Noon Mass at the Cathedral:
As you may be aware, I have been endeavoring to provide for the implementation of the motu proprio Summorum Pontificum on a more stable basis and on a more extended basis in other locations in our diocese in addition to Portland and Newcastle.
I am pleased to announce that as of July 1, 2008, Father Robert Parent will serve as chaplain to the persons attached to the extraordinary form of the Roman liturgy residing in Southern and Central Maine. Father Parent is a native of Lewiston and a priest of the Melkite Catholic Eparchy of Newton, Massachusetts. He enjoys all the ministerial faculties of the Latin Church. Currently, he is the administrator of Our Lady of the Rosary Parish in Sabattus and St. Francis Mission in Greene. He will continue to reside at the family home in Auburn. [So, this fellow is bi-ritual. He is not a Latin Church priest, but he has faculties.]
After July 1, he will be responsible for Sunday Mass in the extraordinary form here at the Cathedral and at the Basilica of Ss. Peter and Paul in Lewiston, and in whichever additional locations may be possible either on the weekends or on weekdays. He will be available for the celebration of the sacraments and sacramentals, including funerals, as needed and where the provisions exist for these celebrations. The faithful having recourse to Father Parent will remain parishioners of the parish where they live. [so… no personal parish at this time.] The jurisdiction of the chaplain extends to Mass and confessions for such persons. Jurisdiction for other sacraments and sacramentals would be obtained from the proper pastor of the place where the individual lives.
The chaplaincy will be funded through the donations of the faithful at the Masses celebrated by Father Parent. [I like this. They can ante up.] The chaplaincy will exist as long as there is sufficient funding to meet its expenses. This budget is being prepared and will be communicated to those who will be benefiting from his ministry.
It is my hope that this will allow for greater access to the extraordinary form of the Roman liturgy. I am grateful to Father Parent for accepting this new position. I count on your support and encouragement to him as he begins his ministry among you.
May God bless you with His peace. Please know that you are in my prayers.
Yours sincerely in Christ,
Most Reverend Richard J. Malone
Bishop of Portland
I like the solution. Let the people who really want this, support it and then, if they can, expand it so that it merits a more stable structure.
I would only point out that this solution does not preclude a parish priest from implementing Summorum Pontificum in his own parish, if such a thing is merited. The provisions of Summorum Pontificum are not by this solution to be restricted, after all.
Finally, the situation of Fr. Parent, the chaplain there in Portland, is instructive for people to understand what Pope Benedict did with Summorum Pontificum.
Before Summorum Pontificum priests really had to have permission to celebrate the older form of Mass publicly. Even if they had faculties to say Mass, they needed permission for the TLM which had been made possible by an indult from John Paul II. Now, however, the indult framework no longer exists, because now all priests have the faculty to say the older Mass by the fact they have the faculty to say Mass at all.
This is because Benedict XVI establsihed that, juridically speaking, there is only one Roman Rite and that that one Roman Rite has two uses. If a priest has faculties for the Roman Rite, he has faculties for the older Mass.
This is why we don’t, juridically, speak of the older, "Tridentine" Mass as a different Rite. If it is a different rite, juridically, then the priest needs special faculties to celebrate it.
For example, if I, as a priest of the Latin Rite, the Roman Rite, want to celebrate Mass as the Maronites do, or the Ukranians, then I must obtain from their ecclesiastica authorities the faculty to say Mass in their rites. If a Maronite priest wants to say Mass in the Roman Rite, he must obtain a faculty from a Latin Church authority.
Thus, you can see that Pope Benedict’s solution was brilliant. Leaving aside the scholarly debates about whether the Novus Ordo and the "Tridentine" Mass are really the same RITE, which is a scholarly historical, liturgical, theological debate, His Holiness said that juridically there is one Roman Rite with two uses. This eliminates the need for separate faculties.
GN has the softened sound given to those letters in French and Italian.
e.g. (French) agneau , signor , monsignor
The nearest English equivalent would be N followed by y.
e.g. Regnum = Reh-nyoom ; Magnificat = Mah-nyeé-fee-caht
Praying that the good trads in Maine will have all their spiritual needs met without having to succumb to extortion....
If Portland, Maine gets away with this blatant simoniacal attempt at extortion and sacramental blackmail, then every other bishop desiring to subvert Summorum Pontificum will do likewise.
There's gotta be a line in the sand, folks. If the folks in Maine don't put a stop to this, every TLM community in the world is going to be paying exorbitant fees for the mass and the sacraments according to the ancient rite.
If there truly are simply two forms of one Latin Rite, as the Pope maintains in Summorum Pontificum, then there is no basis for this extortion whatsoever. No one should be forced to pay this kind of price simply for access to their birthright and Latin Rite.
Perhaps this money could be put to good use to pay the attorneys representing the Church in the various lawsuits that have been coming up with increasing frequency since Vatican II.
I copied your thing on Simony in an email to the Bishop and asked him to explain how it didn't apply to what he is doing. I'm not holding my breath but at least he will no that other people in the US are aware of what he is doing.
I thought this case sounded familiar; Fr. Z. blogged about this on his WDTPRS blog:
Fr. "Z" wrote:
I like the solution.
It figures that ex-prot drama-major turned SSPX-detractor know-it-all Fr. "Z" would think traditionalists being billed for their sacraments is a great idea.
I thought this case sounded familiar; Fr. Z. blogged about this on his WDTPRS blog:
Fr. "Z" wrote:
I like the solution.
It figures that ex-prot drama-major turned SSPX-detractor know-it-all Fr. "Z" would think traditionalists being billed for their sacraments is a great idea.
Ouch...I vaguely remembered reading about this situation; I didn't think his take on it at the time was prudent.
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: AQ report: Parishioners billed $72,000 for TLM (not a jo
servitium wrote:
The 72-grand will go toward the priest's salary and benefits, office supplies and, astoundingly, rental of the church.
Suurrre and I am Moses. Diocese of Portland, eh. The same Portland diocese with all the sex scandals. Hmm I wonder what the money realy is going to. _________________ Ave Maria gratia plena
Calling Alexander VI. Paying for the sacrements. I am seriously so pissed off righty now I am leaving unless I say something about the Pope (who will no doubt turn the other way) that will get me banned.
Not sure but isn't this a form of simony? Either way I am getting sick of the modernist worms occupying Rome and the worlds Dioceses. _________________ Ave Maria gratia plena
I'd like to see the proposed budget, but $72,000 does not seem out of line for a quasi-parish of several hundred people. If only 60 people give $100 per month (or $23.08 per week), you have $72,000 a year.
How is this simony? Would it be simony for a bishop to say, "You can have a parish in this neighborhood, but only if you can raise the money to support it"?
St Catherine of Siena
237 Lexington Street
Woburn, Massachusetts
This Chapel is in a Boston suburb and is the closest SSPX chapel to Maine. By the way, we have 3 groups of people from Maine, including one couple that drives 3 hours (One Way), to attend Mass at 6pm on Sundays.
Praying that the good trads in Maine will have all their spiritual needs met without having to succumb to extortion....
If Portland, Maine gets away with this blatant simoniacal attempt at extortion and sacramental blackmail, then every other bishop desiring to subvert Summorum Pontificum will do likewise.
There's gotta be a line in the sand, folks. If the folks in Maine don't put a stop to this, every TLM community in the world is going to be paying exorbitant fees for the mass and the sacraments according to the ancient rite.
If there truly are simply two forms of one Latin Rite, as the Pope maintains in Summorum Pontificum, then there is no basis for this extortion whatsoever. No one should be forced to pay this kind of price simply for access to their birthright and Latin Rite.
Not only is the good doc right, but this may be a precedent set, in the most diabolical of ways. Think of bishops who never thought of this who might now have their ears perked up for the latest scam.
If you are from Maine, get out and fight this thing! Don't wait one second for this. This is evil to the core. A good protest should be made right in front of the chancellory.
I'd like to see the proposed budget, but $72,000 does not seem out of line for a quasi-parish of several hundred people. If only 60 people give $100 per month (or $23.08 per week), you have $72,000 a year.
These folks are the only community in Maine (which the Diocese of Portland encompasses completely IIRC), possibly in the United States to be charged upfront for Mass, with an $18,000 down payment due by July. Nobody else is being asked to do anything like this.
HELLLOOOOO.... they're being singled out. You can put the calculator away now.
spasi i sochrani wrote:
How is this simony? Would it be simony for a bishop to say, "You can have a parish in this neighborhood, but only if you can raise the money to support it"?
These folks have been using a sub-chapel of the Cathedral for years (of course they're not permitted in the main sanctuary), and now they're being forced pay rent just to use the building. Leaving aside that it costs next to nothing to use the building, since when do Catholics have to come up with 5 figure downpayments and submit checks to a some account as a precondition for receiving Christ's sacraments? As was mentioned, they've offered to have an FSSP priest celebrate Mass and were refused. I'll leave it to others to determine whether it's simony or not, but it certainly is - by intent or by default - treachery.
Joined: 26 Oct 2005 Posts: 443 Location: Upstate South Carolina (not St Marys)
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:48 am Post subject:
The sad thing is that some of us would also pay $72,000 or more for daily, and weekly Sunday Mass in the EF.
The good side is that, I would think that when you are directly paying for a service, like any other service (dry cleaners, yard man, trash pick up etc...) you now have to right to demand what you want from your service provider ie quality or quantity, and they do not have much recourse.
Qm2/ss _________________ The NO is like a box of Chocolates.............
I thought this case sounded familiar; Fr. Z. blogged about this on his WDTPRS blog:
Fr. "Z" wrote:
I like the solution.
It figures that ex-prot drama-major turned SSPX-detractor know-it-all Fr. "Z" would think traditionalists being billed for their sacraments is a great idea.
Oh you mean the same Fr. Z who had no objection to communion in the hand if someone requests it during a TLM??? You don't say!
First, I'd like to say it's great to be here. Next, I'd like to say hello to Dr. Kopp, whom I recall from my previous visits to the Catholic blogosphere (is that really a word?). I hope all is well, Dr. Kopp.
Now to the matter at hand. This blatant attempt to prevent people from experiencing the beauties and blessings of the 1962 missal disgusts me. This action goes beyond mere disobedience to The Holy Father: it ventures into the wasteland of the vilest sin. I pray the good people of Maine bring this simony to the attention of those who will stop it in its tracks.
Joined: 01 Nov 2005 Posts: 527 Location: Western New York
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:30 am Post subject:
How many times have we heard of pastors and bishops 'loaning out' the churches for NON-CATHOLIC worship when those other 'separated gaith communities' were without a facility?
How much do you think THEY were charged? You get three guesses, and the last two don't count.
Thank you, thank you dear God for the Archbishop and the Society. _________________ The cloak of heresy is ambiguity.
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:47 am Post subject: Reply
For what it's worth, I sent them a reply:
People often ask me why I now assist at the SSPX masses exclusively. Apart from the abuses of the Novus Ordo, the intransigent attitude towards the Traditional Latin mass (as it evidenced by your $72,000 budget), had a lot to do with it. I would prayerfully and respectfully ask that you look into your hearts, restore the Mass of All Time, and cancel this ridiculous surcharge, which seems to be little more than a thinly-veiled attempt to discourage Tradition.
Joined: 30 Mar 2007 Posts: 356 Location: California, with regrets
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:01 am Post subject:
Qm2/ss wrote:
The good side is that, I would think that when you are directly paying for a service, like any other service (dry cleaners, yard man, trash pick up etc...) you now have to right to demand what you want from your service provider ie quality or quantity, and they do not have much recourse.
Qm2/ss
Yep. And if this bishop finds himself with a shortage of N.O. priests (imagine that!) and needs the TLM priest to come back and fill in, the answer is yes, we'll rent him out....for $10,000 a gig. _________________ There's no indult and there never was.
I thought this case sounded familiar; Fr. Z. blogged about this on his WDTPRS blog:
Fr. "Z" wrote:
I like the solution.
It figures that ex-prot drama-major turned SSPX-detractor know-it-all Fr. "Z" would think traditionalists being billed for their sacraments is a great idea.
Oh you mean the same Fr. Z who had no objection to communion in the hand if someone requests it during a TLM??? You don't say!
He didn't say that. He said that he did not like communion in the hand in a Tridentine Mass, but that he thought that canon law permitted it.
When I was growing up my priest, Fr DePauw, probably would have blown a gasket if the modernist clergy, having stolen the churches, offered to rent them back to us.
He had three Sunday Masses and never charged nothing. There was one collection and that was it.
Fr Parent is a Melkite priest. Since he's on loan, there should be provision for his support. But room and board charges? It's not like the rectories are bursting with priests and can't spare a room.
When I was growing up my priest, Fr DePauw, probably would have blown a gasket if the modernist clergy, having stolen the churches, offered to rent them back to us.
That's pretty much what they have been doing with the colleges and universities. They loaded up the faculties with liberals, non-Catholics, secular humanists, anti-Catholics, and secret society members and continue to send the bills to Catholic students and their families. They are making Catholics PAY for anti-Catholic education.
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject: SSPX
Haurietis Aquas wrote:
Mike B. wrote:
I pray the good people of Maine bring this simony to the attention of those who will stop it in its tracks.
Greetings. Welcome.
Who do you think will stop this simony in its tracks? The Holy Father? PCED?
This has been going on for decades since the "indult". Even FSSP apostolates have to pay rent, utilities, etc. whereas the "Spanish Mass" folks don't.
Let's be real. The only way to avoid this abuse is to operate outside the diocesan structure - SSPX.
I so totally agree with you from my own experience. I note that not only do I no longer have to put up with the nonsense (and heartbreak) that the diocese dishes out on a regular basis, with the SSPX I know that I am getting the True Mass, said by a holy priest. My own spiritual life has been healed by the SSPX and I will be forever grateful. Deo Gratias.
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