Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:46 pm Post subject: Archbishop DiNardo downplays Summorum Pontificum
A Shepherd's Message
By Archbishop Daniel N. DiNardo July 20, 2007
Link to original
On July 7 the Holy Father issued an Apostolic Letter accompanied by a personal letter concerning the use of what has become known as the Tridentine Mass or the Tridentine Missal. The Pope does not use that terminology; rather, he emphasizes the unity of the Roman Rite. In doing so he seeks to clarify the continuity in the Roman Rite, particularly with the publication of the Roman Missal by Pope Paul VI in 1970. He writes that both Missals are expressions of the one “law of Prayer” (lex orandi) in the Church. The Missal of Paul VI in 1970 is to be regarded as the ordinary form of the law of praying while that of the Missal of Pope Paul V in 1570, whose last edition was in 1962 under Blessed Pope John XXIII, is to be considered the extraordinary form of that same law of praying. It is a two fold use of one and the same rite.
In doing this the Holy Father has permitted a more generous use of the older Missal particularly for those who have been and remain attached with love and affection to that previous liturgical form. In his personal letter accompanying his “Motu Proprio” the Pope mentions that John Paul II had already granted use of the older form of the Rite in 1988 but had not given any detailed prescriptions or precise canonical norms on its use. Pope Benedict is supplying such norms by his new decree and also supplies norms to avoid divisions within parish communities. The Pope also hopes that the use of the older form will allow the new Missal, still the ordinary form of the Roman Rite, to be celebrated with great reverence in greater harmony with the liturgical directives contained in the new Missal.
The Holy Father also explains that his positive motivation for doing this was to come to an interior reconciliation in the heart of the Church. He wants to offer a way to maintain or regain reconciliation and unity within the Church so that divisions do not harden on these liturgical matters. “In the history of the liturgy there is growth and progress, but no rupture. What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too…..It behooves all of us to preserve the riches which have developed in the Church’s faith and prayer, and to give them their proper place.”
The Pope’s decree contains 12 articles on the use of the 1962 Missal. They are given in this issue of The Texas Catholic Herald on page five. As the local Shepherd of the Archdiocese of Galveston-Houston, I certainly want to see the law and spirit of the Pope’s decree upheld. We already have a weekly celebration of the older Rite at Annunciation Parish in downtown Houston. It must be admitted, as the Holy Father himself writes, that there are not many who have the formation in Latin to understand the older forms. That would also include many of our priests. Further, a large number of our priests have never celebrated the older rite. Finally, the multiple celebrations of the Eucharist on Sunday in our parishes already due to our growing population and the number of Masses on weekends that our pastors and priests are already celebrating creates a series of “logistical” issues for many, if not most, of our parishes. We will have to see how requests for the older rite from a “stable” group of the faithful will work out in practice. I am also not opposed to the possibility of the erection of a personal parish for celebrations of the older form of the Roman Rite.
Mass is already celebrated in 14 or more languages each weekend in our archdiocese. In addition, there are 5 different Eastern Rites in our archdiocesan territory: the Ruthenian Byzantine, Ukrainian Byzantine, Maronite, Syro-Malabar and Syro-Malankara, plus a chapel of the Melkite Byzantine Rite as well as occasional celebrations of the Ethiopian Rite by one of our priests for some members of that Eastern Rite community. Finally there is a parish of what is called “Anglican Rite Usage,” for those Catholics who have come to us from the Anglican communion. We have incredible variety. This is why the unity of faith, the “handing on of what we have received,” as St. Paul states it, is so crucial and so much a part of what I see as my own responsibility in this magnificent local Church of Galveston-Houston. The unity of our Catholic Profession of Faith and our communion with the Holy Father is all the more crucial given such rich diversity in this part of God’s Kingdom in southeast Texas. May the ancient “law of believing” (lex credendi) and “law of praying” (lex orandi) be both so saturated by charity, witness and outreach, especially to the poor and the stranger, that we will be a most credible sign of the Catholic Church. _________________ TRADIDI QUOD ET ACCEPI
Archbishop DiNardo did not even mention Summorum Pontificum by name, nor will he provide a link to the document on the Archdiocese' website, despite polite requests that he do so.
Could a moderator remove the extra "m" in Summorum in the title? _________________ TRADIDI QUOD ET ACCEPI
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 3:06 pm Post subject: Re: Archbishop DiNardo downplays Summmorum Pontificum
Quote:
In doing so he seeks to clarify the continuity in the Roman Rite, particularly with the publication of the Roman Missal by Pope Paul VI in 1970. He writes that both Missals are expressions of the one “law of Prayer” (lex orandi) in the Church. The Missal of Paul VI in 1970 is to be regarded as the ordinary form of the law of praying while that of the Missal of Pope Paul V in 1570, whose last edition was in 1962 under Blessed Pope John XXIII, is to be considered the extraordinary form of that same law of praying. It is a two fold use of one and the same rite.
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:09 pm Post subject: sspx chapel right under his nose
Bishop Di Nardo ( who replaced Bishop Fiorenza) conveniently omits that besides the indult Mass at "Annunciation Chapel in Houston, there has been Queen of Angels in Dickinson run by SSPX right under their noses for the last 30 years or so, saying the "NEVER ABROGATED MASS "
*For over 40 years frenzied efforts to outlaw the Traditional Mass have been relentless but it has flourished. Pope Benedict stated one of the reasons for freeing the Old Mass was the impressive number young people flocking to it. This is what the 1960's crowd who are now our "diocesan bishops" and heads of empty seminaries really fear.. the impossibility of maintaining a revolution that has burned itself out. The 2nd Vatican council means as much to the youth of our day as the Council of Chalcedon.It's elderly adherents are like dads dancing at the school disco! * (The Remnant 7-15-07)
So all of you in the Houston Galveston Diocese start your petitions to the good Bishop! I'd like to hear how he backpedals out of this one !
The strenght of the wicked lies in the cowardice and weakness of good men !
Could a moderator remove the extra "m" in Summorum in the title?
Done.
As per the article though, I think in some ways the "go open a personal parish, just leave us alone" attitude has some unintended advantages to it.
In some towns (like mine), nearly none of the wreckovated churches are suitable for the TLM. If a nice place could be found, and all the trad-minded folks congregated there, with a good or two priest (or a trad priest "shipped in"), that might not be a bad thing.
Perhaps I'm all wet here, but I have some mixed feelings about any-'ol priest in any-'ol building just taking up the TLM.
Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 1487 Location: mississippi
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:37 pm Post subject:
servitium wrote:
As per the article though, I think in some ways the "go open a personal parish, just leave us alone" attitude has some unintended advantages to it.
In some towns (like mine), nearly none of the wreckovated churches are suitable for the TLM. If a nice place could be found, and all the trad-minded folks congregated there, with a good or two priest (or a trad priest "shipped in"), that might not be a bad thing.
Perhaps I'm all wet here, but I have some mixed feelings about any-'ol priest in any-'ol building just taking up the TLM.
Boo Yah, couldn't agree more. Just imagine Fr. Slippery Fingers saying his mixed up TLM in St. Joan Chittisters Iconaclast no image/church in the round parish. Much better to have a real church and a Priest who actualy wants to say the Mass do so there. The problem is the "personal Parish" will most likely be at least 4 hours from any major city.
Joined: 05 Aug 2004 Posts: 3062 Location: Philadelphia, PA USA
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:59 pm Post subject:
servitium wrote:
If a nice place could be found, and all the trad-minded folks congregated there, with a good or two priest (or a trad priest "shipped in"), that might not be a bad thing.
As a member of such a parish (one that pre-dates SP), I can aver that it is about the best solution possible.
And if the bishop says, "We don't need public TLMs, they can go to the personal parish," well, that can give the personal parish a shot in the arm. We've had a lot of visitors since SP was released, so much so that Fr. is having an "open house" this Sunday.
Could a moderator remove the extra "m" in Summorum in the title?
Done.
As per the article though, I think in some ways the "go open a personal parish, just leave us alone" attitude has some unintended advantages to it.
In some towns (like mine), nearly none of the wreckovated churches are suitable for the TLM. If a nice place could be found, and all the trad-minded folks congregated there, with a good or two priest (or a trad priest "shipped in"), that might not be a bad thing.
Perhaps I'm all wet here, but I have some mixed feelings about any-'ol priest in any-'ol building just taking up the TLM.
Good point, Serv, but if seminaries began teaching Latin as the Holy Father requested a while back, it shouldn't be too difficult. _________________ Fiat Pax
I am also not opposed to the possibility of the erection of a personal parish for celebrations of the older form of the Roman Rite.
Notice that he said "a" personal parish. That is: a personal parish (not parishes) in an archdiocese that covers 8,880 square miles and has 1,300,000 Catholics in a total population of 5,372,030.
Thanks, Archbishop. You're quite generous. _________________ TRADIDI QUOD ET ACCEPI
I am also not opposed to the possibility of the erection of a personal parish for celebrations of the older form of the Roman Rite.
Notice that he said "a" personal parish. That is: a personal parish (not parishes) in an archdiocese that covers 8,880 square miles and has 1,300,000 Catholics in a total population of 5,372,030.
Thanks, Archbishop. You're quite generous.
Exactly, we have enough priests who can take the time to learn to say Mass in 14 different languages, but not Latin. _________________ Fiat Pax
Joined: 24 Aug 2004 Posts: 1697 Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:46 pm Post subject:
servitium wrote:
Land of the Irish wrote:
Could a moderator remove the extra "m" in Summorum in the title?
Done.
As per the article though, I think in some ways the "go open a personal parish, just leave us alone" attitude has some unintended advantages to it.
In some towns (like mine), nearly none of the wreckovated churches are suitable for the TLM. If a nice place could be found, and all the trad-minded folks congregated there, with a good or two priest (or a trad priest "shipped in"), that might not be a bad thing.
Perhaps I'm all wet here, but I have some mixed feelings about any-'ol priest in any-'ol building just taking up the TLM.
Same thing here, serv. The "Catholic" churches here in Virginia Beach look horrible, except maybe one or two. In fact I know of a methodist church that would look better after some remodeling. _________________ http://randomthoughtsasian.blogspot.com/
The archbishop appears to be more interested in training people to "dissolve" marriages than he is in the Traditional Latin Mass. _________________ TRADIDI QUOD ET ACCEPI
Notice that he said "a" personal parish. That is: a personal parish (not parishes) in an archdiocese that covers 8,880 square miles and has 1,300,000 Catholics in a total population of 5,372,030.
The archbishop appears to be more interested in training people to "dissolve" marriages than he is in the Traditional Latin Mass.
This is because the Archbishop is froward. The Archbishop though, along with being froward, doesn't have the foresight to realize that he and his ilk have already lost the battle.
He's not going to be able to contain the Mass to any limited application. Sure possibly for a short time, but all of these up and coming priests from all walks who are learning the Mass are going to eventually have to go somewhere. All of these congregants who are buying missals, all of the young people who have no stake in V-II and all of their children are going to worship Our Lord as they see fit.
The baby-boomers, revolutionaries and old guard's time is up. It's all downhill for them from this point on. All they've done is lose souls, prestige, support, passion bodies and money. They're not going to suddenly turn that around. Providence isn't with them.
In any case, they've got to retire or die sooner or later. We'll win by attrition if nothing else.
Could a moderator remove the extra "m" in Summorum in the title?
Done.
As per the article though, I think in some ways the "go open a personal parish, just leave us alone" attitude has some unintended advantages to it.
In some towns (like mine), nearly none of the wreckovated churches are suitable for the TLM. If a nice place could be found, and all the trad-minded folks congregated there, with a good or two priest (or a trad priest "shipped in"), that might not be a bad thing.
Perhaps I'm all wet here, but I have some mixed feelings about any-'ol priest in any-'ol building just taking up the TLM.
The gentleman is correct.
Per se the Mass should of course be restored to each parish, but the churches should be purified of the sacrileges first.
BTW-- I lived in Houston and the former bishop seemed very much with the Bernardin Old Guard wing of the US bishops. I hope the new one is an improvement.
I am also not opposed to the possibility of the erection of a personal parish for celebrations of the older form of the Roman Rite.
Notice that he said "a" personal parish. That is: a personal parish (not parishes) in an archdiocese that covers 8,880 square miles and has 1,300,000 Catholics in a total population of 5,372,030.
Thanks, Archbishop. You're quite generous.
Yeah, a lot of these bishops have it in mind that they're going to just stuff us into a corner at some far corner of the diocese. That's when we have to fight. The idea of Summorum Pontificum, from the way I read it, is that we have greater ACCESS to the True Mass and not be treated as pariahs. Believe me, the Ecclesia Dei commission will be getting A LOT of complaints from this country! _________________ Semper idem!
Bishop DiNardo also put the word "STABLE " in quotes ( regarding a request from a STABLE group of people.... I think that certainly leaves lots of room for ambiguity.
I also feel the MASS in Latin in any old parish is truly a great big baby step of many that are needed. Their whole mindset has to be changed!
Usually with the young people it is the birth control issue that will wean them back to the Novus ordo when it becomes increasingly inconvenient to follow the rules of Marriage. Obviously the Pastors need to be strong in their convictions against the modern errors of the age. I don't see that Priests need great FORTITUDE to address these issues at the Sermons, yet some would rather not offend anyone and prefer to be publicly silent on various issues in their parish.
As with our priests of the SSPX we have to pray that the NOVUS ORDO Priests also battle the laxity of many parents who are not watching their children (TEENS), who throw away their children to the public schools after elementary school ( all in the name of a "better education ") and lose them, the many many "catholic "young people who continue to be a part of the MY SPACE scene, the acceptance of the gay lifestyle mentality, the allowance of weddings to be a disgraceful show of immodesty and irreverence, "catholic parents " who choose public school for their children when traditional catholic schools are within minutes of their homes! All of this just touches on of "some of the huge battles all priests must fight and must be courageous in their TLM parishes as well as the Novus Ordo parishes. If this happens by the grace of GOD surely our children will benefit as the embark on their grown up lives and may have it easier than than we have( being so limited as to where we lived ,worked in relation to where a Traditional Mass and school was located.)
St.Pius X stated "The chief strength of the wicked lies in the cowardice and weakness of good men"
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BTW-- I lived in Houston and the former bishop seemed very much with the Bernardin Old Guard wing of the US bishops. I hope the new one is an improvement.
It was often said in the past that Archbishop Fiorenza was of the Bernardin school. In fact, like Bernardin, he gave Opus Dei a church (in Houston, Holy Cross Chapel, downtown, rather than a parish as in Chicago) to serve. Trads will recall the Fr. Zigrang incident, of course. That said, I have met Archbishop Fiorenza several times since his retirement, and heard him preach very traditional sermons, and must say that although he certainly is a Novus Ordo man, he comes across as very much more reverent and in a kind of hermeneutic of continuity mode than he was given credit for in the old days. He is also now a very friendly and relaxed man, while still maintaining a certain appropriate gravity. And one must not overlook the fact that he is still serving the G-H people; he could have gone off to retirement and the golf course but has not. I think there is a lot more to be said for Archbishop Fiorenza than he has been given credit for.
We here in Houston must hope that Archbishop DiNardo will see fit to be generous with the Mass of All Time. I think that his letter can be read in such a way as to suggest that he was really trying to allay the fears of the many liberals in this archdiocese, and not necessarily to suggest that he will restrict the TLM. The reference to a personal parish is interesting because it comes on the heels of a visit made to him by Fr. John Berg of the FSSP, to offer their services. It sounds as if DiNardo is considering the offer seriously, a fact which, given the largely liberal make-up of this archdiocese and its clergy, is a sign that he will be willing to swim against the current here somewhat. As a preacher, Archbishop DiNardo is pretty conservative in his messages (and he is also a bona fide Greek scholar), so I would not count him out so quickly in this area.
On the other side of the coin, I have little confidence in the chancery, which seems to be largely populated with dedicated Novus Ordo types, of a rather liberal (rather than "conservative") persuasion. I can think of two incidents already that I know of that suggest that the chancery could very well become an obstacle to wider use of the TLM.
I hear of a number of cases of priests here getting ready to offer the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass in the older usage when September 14 comes, so it will be interesting to see what actually happens here.
I have heard that the Archbishop will respond to the MP more formally with a message on August 11th. I wait with baited breath. Here in Houston, sure, we have a lot of liberals, but we have a lot more conservatives and tradional Catholics than you would think. This Archdiocese has 1.3 million Catholics, for crying out loud. It's a microcosm of the Church as a whole - Africans, Asians (many Vietnamese), Hispanics, Anglos, etc. It is clear that DiNardo isn't being proactive - a la Burke - in mandating Latin to be taught at the seminary, etc. We have a massive battle on our hand since the big money/Fiorenza/Rizzotto crowd builds the new Cathedral and plans to celebrate iself into oblivion. When an Archbishop plays footsie with a papal document, it's a sure sign of a long struggle to come. Be prepared, watch and pray and find priests to say the TLM...everywhere!! This diocese is a typical example of the struggle at hand for all in the US and beyond.
I have heard that the Archbishop will respond to the MP more formally with a message on August 11th. I wait with baited breath. Here in Houston, sure, we have a lot of liberals, but we have a lot more conservatives and tradional Catholics than you would think. This Archdiocese has 1.3 million Catholics, for crying out loud. It's a microcosm of the Church as a whole - Africans, Asians (many Vietnamese), Hispanics, Anglos, etc. It is clear that DiNardo isn't being proactive - a la Burke - in mandating Latin to be taught at the seminary, etc. We have a massive battle on our hand since the big money/Fiorenza/Rizzotto crowd builds the new Cathedral and plans to celebrate iself into oblivion. When an Archbishop plays footsie with a papal document, it's a sure sign of a long struggle to come. Be prepared, watch and pray and find priests to say the TLM...everywhere!! This diocese is a typical example of the struggle at hand for all in the US and beyond.
I agree with what you say, Mr. Follower. In my own experience in this archdiocese, the big wealthy parishes in the west and north of town (e.g., St Cecilia, St Michael, Prince of Peace, St Elizabeth Ann Seton, where I could not even find the reserved Blessed Sacrament) have tended to be the most liberal and desacralized. It is as if they were all identity Catholics who were quite happy, thank you, if they need not be bothered by the Church's teaching on certain subjects, which their compliant pastors assured them, either directly or more often by not preaching about those things, was changed anyway. Thus the alliance with big money in this archdiocese should raise red flags.
I have heard that the Archbishop will respond to the MP more formally with a message on August 11th. I wait with baited breath. Here in Houston, sure, we have a lot of liberals, but we have a lot more conservatives and tradional Catholics than you would think. This Archdiocese has 1.3 million Catholics, for crying out loud. It's a microcosm of the Church as a whole - Africans, Asians (many Vietnamese), Hispanics, Anglos, etc. It is clear that DiNardo isn't being proactive - a la Burke - in mandating Latin to be taught at the seminary, etc. We have a massive battle on our hand since the big money/Fiorenza/Rizzotto crowd builds the new Cathedral and plans to celebrate iself into oblivion. When an Archbishop plays footsie with a papal document, it's a sure sign of a long struggle to come. Be prepared, watch and pray and find priests to say the TLM...everywhere!! This diocese is a typical example of the struggle at hand for all in the US and beyond.
I agree with what you say, Mr. Follower. In my own experience in this archdiocese, the big wealthy parishes in the west and north of town (e.g., St Cecilia, St Michael, Prince of Peace, St Elizabeth Ann Seton, where I could not even find the reserved Blessed Sacrament) have tended to be the most liberal and desacralized. It is as if they were all identity Catholics who were quite happy, thank you, if they need not be bothered by the Church's teaching on certain subjects, which their compliant pastors assured them, either directly or more often by not preaching about those things, was changed anyway. Thus the alliance with big money in this archdiocese should raise red flags.
With one exception, or what used to be, Holy Rosary downtown. The wealthy benefactors threatened to without funding over at least one issue. _________________ Fiat Pax
Yes, I am very familiar with the Holy Rosary protest, as I am a parishioner there. This was back in the day of the US Bishops telling everyone that it was not "licit" to kneel for communion. Cardiac arrest was everywhere...people were so angry. This was right on the heels of the Boston scandal, and our dear pastor had to appeal to Bishop Fiorenza to allow us poor souls to continue kneeling for communion as we have been doing for decades. It was granted for us only...how ridiculous!! Incidentally, Holy Rosary is one of only 3 parishes left in an Archdiocese of 1.5 million Catholics which has a communion rail that is used...think about that for a minute. I want to keep this thread going because this battle in Houston is a typical example of a wealthy diocese using its power to play the diversity/multicultural card. The MP is just another rung on the ladder of DiNardo's melting pot diocese with 14 different Mass languages. To him, it's the Pope's way of saying "make sure Latin is one of your languages." They don't get it. This battle is about more than the TLM - it's about the integral Catholic faith. If the Bishops cannot get the first message, then they've already closed their ears to the ones to come. Oremus.
Yes, I am very familiar with the Holy Rosary protest, as I am a parishioner there. This was back in the day of the US Bishops telling everyone that it was not "licit" to kneel for communion. Cardiac arrest was everywhere...people were so angry. This was right on the heels of the Boston scandal, and our dear pastor had to appeal to Bishop Fiorenza to allow us poor souls to continue kneeling for communion as we have been doing for decades. It was granted for us only...how ridiculous!! Incidentally, Holy Rosary is one of only 3 parishes left in an Archdiocese of 1.5 million Catholics which has a communion rail that is used...think about that for a minute. I want to keep this thread going because this battle in Houston is a typical example of a wealthy diocese using its power to play the diversity/multicultural card. The MP is just another rung on the ladder of DiNardo's melting pot diocese with 14 different Mass languages. To him, it's the Pope's way of saying "make sure Latin is one of your languages." They don't get it. This battle is about more than the TLM - it's about the integral Catholic faith. If the Bishops cannot get the first message, then they've already closed their ears to the ones to come. Oremus.
My family attended there back when Fr. Brown was Pastor. Actually, my Grandmother tried to get the indult there, but Fr. wouldn't do it. She got it at Annunciation instead. We presently go to Queen of Angels (SSPX) in Dickinson. _________________ Fiat Pax
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