Putting the Matter to Rest: NO BLEEPERY HERE

Putting the Matter to Rest [NO BLEEPERY HERE]*

*Comments by AQ moderator Tom in brackets ([]).

Do we have a Pope? [YES] Is Jorge Bergoglio who took the name Francis the real Pope? [YES] and Benedict XVI a retired or resigned Pope? [YES] Has there ever been in the history of the Church such a thing as a “pope emeritus” who wears papal garb and says he has not given up the papacy completely? [NO] Is Francis a good pope? [NO] Is he, Francis, the Vicar of Christ? [YES]

Let’s deal with these questions one at a time. First, it seems we have a pope and there can be little doubt about that with the College of Cardinals having elected him. [YES] Is Benedict XVI retired, resigned? [YES] or still in some way still partially in charge? [NO] Apparently so [NO], he still wears papal garb and stays within the confines of the Vatican. [YES, although the last Pope to resign voluntarily (St. Celestine V in 1294) did not continue to wear papal garb or stay in the Vatican but was imprisoned by his successor Boniface VIII, who nullified all his acts except the papal right to abdicate; Clement V canonized Celestine in 1313] Yet there are seemingly others more highly qualified than I who think not [YES] and I don’t know of the term “pope emeritus” ever having been used before in the entire history of the Church [YES]. Finally, is he, Francis, the Vicar of Christ? [YES] Aha, here is the 64,000 dollar question and I would have to say: No, not unless he starts acting like it [That sounds like the heresy of Donatism that the effectiveness of minstry and the validity of prayers, sacraments, and other acts (if legal or moral) of the clergy, (presumably including popes) depend on their moral character]

You see, to me being the Vicar of Christ is more than just wearing the clothes and occupying the Chair. [EXPECTED but not necessarily realized in all cases] It means doing what Christ Himself has commanded: “Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.”< (Matthew 28, 19-20). [EXPECTED but not necessarily realized in all cases] And, I see nothing in those words about substituting individual conscience for the commandments or, climate change being such an overwhelming concern or, not evangelizing heretics and non believers. [YES]

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10 comments on “Putting the Matter to Rest: NO BLEEPERY HERE

  1. Putting the matter to Rest

    Sounds more like putting yourself out of the Church. We don’t get to decide who’s the pope. I don’t see any expressed doubt among cardinals, bishops or priests.

    Ultimately, it’s up to Servitium whether AQ becomes *bleep* friendly, if that’s where this is going …

  2. Looks like my post was misinterpreted. I did not say we didn’t have a pope or a Vicar of Christ. What I said was this pope was not acting IMO as Vicar of Christ. Nevertheless I apologize and ask that the post be removed. I am not a BLEEP and never wish to be.

  3. I agree with your post ! What you have said is correct! In fact I have been thinking along the same lines for a while now ! Most of what this Pope says and does is against Church teaching so why look at him as the Vicar of Christ ! In reality , this Pope could not run a candy store in the Bronx ! In fact the people of Argentina do not want him back, so why should we be forced to suffer his idiocy ? To follow him is to be outside the Church ! To resist is to be a follower of truth !

    • Thanks, bro, for your support and it gives me the opportunity to further clarify my remarks. I believe Francis is the validly elected pope but that does not mean I think he is a good pope. I also believe we are living in the end-times and the situation in the Church and the World is serious beyond measure. Many people of much higher standing in the Church than we have attempted to correct this pope without, it seems, much success – the Dubia being but one example. Out of a spirit of frustration for what is happening I tend to speak perhaps much more forcefully than I should. But that’s me and I have always acted in this way when I believe high-ranking people in either the Church or the World seem to be leading people to their own destruction. The Moderators have been given their task by Serv and I understand their position and appreciate the fact they have a difficult job to do. Hopefully, we can go forward from here with good will from both sides, God bless you, the Moderators, Serv and all associated with this endeavor.

  4. Attempting to ‘put this matter to rest’ is like trying to put a toddler to bed.

  5. Not to beat a dead horse but Donatism??? Come on, Tom, I never said he had to be faultless in his ministry just that he should carry out the command Christ gave to the apostles. If you feel he is doing that, fine, but I respectfully disagree.

    • I reviewed my comments and replies (as addenda) to your above post.

      I said “That sounds like … Donatism …” not “It is …”, and I deliberately avoided any mention of “faultness … ministry” (or something equivalent) in my definition/description of Donatism.

      • I’ve said the following in my response to 747 Pilot and I believe it is appropriate to state it here as well: “Thanks, bro, for your support and it gives me the opportunity to further clarify my remarks. I believe Francis is the validly elected pope but that does not mean I think he is a good pope. I also believe we are living in the end-times and the situation in the Church and the World is serious beyond measure. Many people of much higher standing in the Church than we have attempted to correct this pope without, it seems, much success – the Dubia being but one example. Out of a spirit of frustration for what is happening I tend to speak perhaps much more forcefully than I should. But that’s me and I have always acted in this way when I believe high-ranking people in either the Church or the World seem to be leading people to their own destruction. The Moderators have been given their task by Serv and I understand their position and appreciate the fact they have a difficult job to do. Hopefully, we can go forward from here with good will from both sides,”

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