Pope Francis says ‘God cannot be God without man’. And we need another clarification

Pope Francis says ‘God cannot be God without man’. And we need another clarification

[Calling Cardinals Burke, Caffarra, Brandmüller and Meisner to call for the clarification of another dubium]

John-Henry Westen

VATICAN, June 7, 2017 (LifeSiteNews) — Pope Francis again sparked calls for clarification today as he stated before the crowds in St. Peter’s Square: “God cannot be God without man.”

The pope was speaking from a written text at his Wednesday general audience.

According to theologians who spoke with LifeSite, there is a danger the phrase by itself could be taken in an erroneous way.

In context, the Pope said:

Dear brothers and sisters, we are never alone. We can be far, hostile; we can even say we are ‘without God.’ But Jesus Christ’s Gospel reveals to us that God cannot be without us: He will never be a God ‘without man’; it is He who cannot be without us, and this is a great mystery! God cannot be God without man: this is a great mystery!

John Paul Meenan, professor of theology at Our Lady Seat of Wisdom, a Catholic college in Eastern Ontario, told LifeSiteNews that while the second phrase (God cannot be God without man) is open to misinterpretation, the Pope’s first wording (He will never be a God ‘without man’) is less problematic since it is in the future tense, “since God is now in an eternal covenant with man.” Professor Meenan said it is not true that ‘God cannot be God without man’ in a universal sense.

Meenan was particularly concerned about the statement because it could be taken to support a modernist falsehood known as “process theology” which posits “God perfects himself by creation or grows with creation.”

Another credentialed Catholic lay theologian known to LifeSiteNews but wishing to remain anonymous explained, “Because of The Incarnation of Our Lord Jesus Christ, it is true that God remains eternally joined to mankind through the human nature of Jesus Christ, Second of the Three Divine Persons of The Most Blessed Trinity.”

“Nonetheless, God has absolutely no actual need of mankind, our relationship with God being entirely dependent on that gratuitous superabundance of the infinite Divine Love of The Father, Son and Holy Spirit,” the theologian added.

Saint Irenaeus of Lyons (c.130-c.208), a bishop, martyr, and Father of the Church, wrote in his famous work Against the Heresies:

In the beginning it was not because he had need of man that God fashioned Adam but so as to have someone on whom to set his blessings. For, not only before Adam but even before creation, the Word glorified the Father while dwelling in him and was glorified by the Father.

Saint Irenaeus added:

When people stand in the light, it is not they who illumine the light and cause it to shine but who are illumined and made to shine by it. Far from contributing anything at all to it, they benefit from the light and are lit up by it. This is how it is in serving God: our service contributes nothing to God for God has no need of man’s service; but to those who serve and follow him God gives life, incorruptibility and eternal glory.

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2 comments on “Pope Francis says ‘God cannot be God without man’. And we need another clarification

  1. Francis: “God Cannot Be God without Man.” Yes, he really said that.

    by Christopher A. Ferrara
    June 9, 2017

    In yet another of his curious pronouncements from the Vatican, Pope Bergoglio offered the following remarkable opinion at his General Audience this past Wednesday:

    “We can be far, hostile; we can even say we are ‘without God.’ But Jesus Christ’s Gospel reveals to us that God cannot be without us: He will never be a God ‘without man’; it is He who cannot be without us, and this is a great mystery! God cannot be God without man: this is a great mystery! [Dio non può essere Dio senza l’uomo: grande mistero è questo!]”

    In other words, according to Pope Bergoglio God needs man in order to complete His nature. Now, of course, any minimally catechized ten-year-old knows that God does not need anything whatsoever and that His creation of man was a gratuitous manifestation of His infinite love. Indeed, a being who needed anything would, by definition, not be God, the highest being and the ground of all other being, but some lesser being. For as even Plato recognized in the light of human reason alone, God must be “the sum of all perfections.”

    It would be easy enough to dismiss Pope Bergoglio’s opinion as merely sloppy language resulting in nonsense. But it would appear that beneath the nonsense is something deeper and even more nonsensical, albeit more troubling for the Church: the “evolutionary theology” of Teilhard de Chardin in which Pope Bergoglio was steeped during his formation as a liberal Jesuit of the Sixties and Seventies, despite condemnation of Teilhard de Chardin’s heresies by the Holy Office under Pope John XXIII.

    It was in fact Pope Bergoglio who, in his “green encyclical” Laudato si’, referred to the “contribution of Teilhard de Chardin” in a footnote to a passage wherein Pope Bergoglio declares: “The ultimate destiny of the universe is in the fullness of God, which has already been attained by the risen Christ, fulcrum of the universal maturation.” (The Vatican’s English translation is not faithful to the official Italian version, including the key Teilhardian phrase fulcro della maturazione universale [“fulcrum of the universal maturation”].)

    That is, according to Pope Bergoglio, Christ attains the “fullness of God” through evolution because, through evolution, He has become a man risen from the dead and, as such, the “fulcrum of the universal maturation” who will lead all things to Teilhard’s imaginary Omega Point. Thus did Teilhard, a scientific as well as a theological fraud, implicated in the Piltdown Man hoax, have the audacity to assert in his The Heart of the Matter: “It is Christ, in very truth, who saves — but should we not immediately add that, at the same time, it is Christ who is saved by Evolution?”

    LifeSiteNews, in an article by John-Henry Westen, has also taken note of Pope Bergoglio’s apparent attachment to Teilhardian “process theology,” which asserts that “God perfects himself by creation or grows with creation.” And while it is certainly true that given the Incarnation, God will henceforth never be without man, this is not the same as saying, as Bergoglio does, that God could not be God without man. As an orthodox theologian cited by LifeSite explains: “… God has absolutely no actual need of mankind, our relationship with God being entirely dependent on that gratuitous superabundance of the infinite Divine Love of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.”

    As Westen’s headline states: “We need another clarification.” None will be forthcoming if past Bergoglian practice is any indication. In any event, Catholics in a position to do so have a duty to present, yet again, the authentic teaching of the Church in order to counter the latest Bergoglian novelty. The acquiescence of silence is not an option.

  2. A dubium for the Dubia Brothers

    Louie Verrecchio
    June 9, 2017

    null

    There’s a new dust up taking place in Catholic circles (and even some Protestant ones) thanks to the “catechesis” offered by Francis during his Wednesday Audience this week.

    Speaking of God the Father, he said:

    “It is He who cannot be without us. This is a great mystery: God cannot be God without man. This is a great mystery.”

    Of course, this isn’t really so much a “great mystery” as a great heresy; so great, in fact, that very few Catholics if any beyond the age of reason actually believe it.

    And guess what?

    Neither does Francis.

    Far be it for me to defend His Humbleness, but…

    Though I certainly won’t go so far as to say that this is no big deal, if we’re honest we have to admit that the bumbling old Jesuit was simply getting a little too cute in trying to titillate his adoring fans by making the point that God will never abandon us; even when we are convinced that He has.

    This much seems fairly obvious from the context of his comments.

    In other words, no one really believes that Francis was attempting to change either the immutable doctrine of the Church, Divine Law, or the bi-millennial practices that flow directly from them.

    That, however, is precisely what he is doing in Amoris Laetitia, the blasphemies and heresies of which are being widely accepted as truth and actively employed; not just by under-nourished laypersons, but by entire bishops’ conferences.

    My point is simply this:

    The idea that God cannot be God without man is just plain absurd; so much so that one would be hard pressed to make the case that it represents a clear and present danger to souls.

    And yet, the buzz created by it over the last few days seems to exceed that which is attributable to Amoris Laetitia over the last several months.

    This being so, when I read about the “fiery debate” that has ensued among theologians in the aftermath of Wednesday’s carnival act, some it coming from Catholic theology professors, and I encounter Catholic clerics on social media expressing outrage over Francis’ latest stupefying act of stupidity, I can’t help but see fiddlers fiddling whilst Rome burns to the ground.

    With every passing day, Amoris Laetitia is getting more and more deeply ingrained in the life of the Church and, in this case, countless souls are most certainly being misled; some of them all the way to Hell.

    A mere ten days from today, the much discussed dubia will celebrate its ninth month in existence and it has yet to give birth to anything other than some meaningless conversation. At this point, even that has died down to a veritable whisper.

    With this in mind, it seems pretty obvious that we have a priority problem, and by “we” I really mean those in authority.

    Consider:

    Two of the four Dubia Brothers recently found time in their busy schedules to speak at a multi-day conference in Rome. Good for them! One of the two then departed the Eternal City for Milan where he was booked to appear for a similar gig. God love him!

    Has it ever occurred to these men that while they’re out there traveling the celebrity circuit, the flame-throwing heretic author of Amoris Laetitia is still happily setting fire to the Church practically unmolested?

    Maybe it’s time for us to send a dubium to the Dubia Brothers:

    DUBIUM: Do you guys really give a rat’s rectum or not?

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