Yes, yes it is

Yes, yes it is.

SEP 06, 2016 by HILARY WHITE

This from Bishop Fellay:

And in fact, Rome is offering us a new body. At the head, a bishop. This bishop, chosen by the pope, with (from) three names, which a presented by the Society and taken in the Society. This bishop will have authority above (over) the priests. Above the religious who want to be members. And above the Faithful. All Sacraments, (to) the Faithful (who) will belong to this body, will have the strict right to receive all the Sacraments from priests of the Society. All Sacraments, Marriage included. The bishop will have the right to have schools, seminaries, ordinations. Even to make new religious congregations. And accept inside, other who would like to join. It is something like a super diocese. Autonomous from the local bishops. In other words, for you, no change to what you have now. The only thing, it will be with the recognition that you are Catholics.

You can imagine that… that will create a lot of conflicts, with the local bishops. You can easily imagine that. So we have to remain prudent there. But in itself, you cannot imagine anything better, than what is offered there.

And such a thing that you cannot think, that’s a trap.

Yes, I can.

It’s not a trap.

Yes, it is.

And if somebody is offering something like that, it can be only because he wants good to us.

Ummmm…This is Francis we’re talking about, right?

Right? Because we know that means that no, he doesn’t.

When, in the entirety of the last three-something years, has this man ever shown the slightest hint that he wants anything good for anyone?

He wants the good of Tradition,

Sorry, your excellency, but… are you on drugs?

Have you been living in a parallel universe where the man on Peter’s throne is not a manifest heretic, narcissist, Marxist-Peronist lunatic who has spent the last three+ years doing everything he can to destroy the remains of the Catholic Faith within the Church? A lying, blaspheming megalomaniac who has made himself a mortal enemy of Christ, His Blessed Mother, all the angels and saints? Because if you have, I’d like to know how you got in there so I can get there too.

he wants Tradition to say, spread in the Church.

Sorry, but …

…are you mad?

It is impossible to think that such a thing could be invented by enemies.

No, it really isn’t. Not even a bit.

The enemies have many other ways to crush us down. Not that.

Not if they can’t get to you. Which right now they can’t. But if you take the deal, they can.

See?

Please tell me that these people, who are, let’s face it, about the last hope for Catholicism surviving at all, anywhere, are not this clewless. Please tell me that.

Let’s see if we can think of how such a proposal could be “used by enemies to crush us down”. In, oh, about five minutes. Ready?

Go!

What would all the Trads in the world do if there were an SSPX haven to go to that was free of those pesky doubts about jurisdiction or “schism”? They’d flock to it, right? Everyone would. Priests as well as laity. I would. You would. We’d be crazy not to, right?

Now, the Romans don’t care about us little guys, but they REALLy want to get rid of the Traddie and quasi-traditional and even “conservative” priests (and whatever bishops might be interested.) Anyone who will stand up and say no to the programme.

Wouldn’t it be nice if we just voluntarily got rid of ourselves? That would clear things up for them and their Big Plans for the rest of the Church right? Because right now it’s just that teeny weeny rump of priests, one or two bishops and a couple of cardinals who are putting the blocks in front of the wheels, making all manner of trouble.

Then what? Once the gig is up, and the Communion for divorced and remarried, or women priests or holy gayness is all set up as the pinch of incense, force the entire pack of us to go along or get out.

What do you do when you’re sweeping up something in your house? Broken glass, say? You first sweep it all up into a little pile, making sure not to leave any little bits lying around.

Of course, having excommunicated a few million believers for refusing to abandon the Faith, they will have in reality – that is, in the eyes of God – excommunicated themselves. We’re still going to be the Church, the mystical Body of Christ. The spotless bride.

They will have the fancy churches, for a while. Until the states decide that there are no longer enough Catholics to justify them being used as churches. Let’s not forget their pseudo-church is heading for demographic collapse.

Anyway, if that is what Fellay thinks, fine. But can we cut the crap?

Please? It’s us you’re talking to, for pete sake.

~

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13 comments on “Yes, yes it is

  1. Indefectible Church “Subsisting” Inside Neo-Modernist Roman

    06 Tuesday Sep 2016
    Posted by S. Armaticus in Restoration

    Today we continue with analysis of the Bishop Fellay conference and specifically, the proposed “solution” to the SSPX “recognition” issue. Consider this a continuation of a post we published on the 1st of August titled Desperately Seeking Reconciliation. (see here)

    But first, CONTEXT.

    In our earlier post titled Desperately Seeking Reconciliation, we presented new guidelines coming from neo-Modernist Rome for the formation of new communities, removal of bishops and guidelines for female contemplative orders.

    Here is the chronology:

    May 20, 2016 publication date (Decision on 4th of April) (CNS News)

    Diocesan bishops must consult with the Vatican before establishing a diocesan religious order, Pope Francis ruled.

    June 4, 2016, (Life Site News)

    In a moto proprio, or letter issued of the pope’s own initiative and signed by him, titled Come una madre amorevole (“As a loving mother”), Pope Francis established a new procedure for handling cases of diocesan bishops who are negligent in their “exercise of office,” particularly in relation to the sexual abuse of minors and vulnerable adults.

    June 30, 2016 ( NC Register)

    The Vatican today published Pope Francis’ new apostolic constitution on women’s contemplative life, Vultum Dei quaerere (Seeking the Face of God).

    The Holy Father ends the document by establishing a new set of rules for contemplative women, many of which emphasize the importance of God being at the center of monastic life.

    The new rules have been extensively commented over at the Remnant. Here is Hilary White’s comment:

    The pope has issued “new guidelines” for contemplative nuns, and it has set off every one of my alarms, long, loud and terrifying as an air raid siren. It is possibly one of the most sinister things I’ve seen coming from Bergoglio thus far, but I think few people will understand how serious it is or could be.

    So this is the background to the recent actions of Francis, the bishop of Rome.

    As to the actions of Archbishop Pozzo, of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, the following is the position:

    Pozzo confirmed that the creation of a so-called Personal Prelatire had been promised after the model of Opus Dei. The Superior General Bernard Fellay has accepted this proposal, “even if in the coming months details need to be clarified.”

    Which brings us back to the Bishop Fellay conference and the video titled 6/6.


    www.youtube.com/embed/9oKWpVGirL0

    In this above video, Bp. Fellay explains what has been proposed/written in a draft document pertaining to the specifics of the Personal Prelature. Here is the relevant transcribed passage:

    And I am going to end with another point, which is also of interest and that is what Rome does offer us. You know that one of our determining point is that we are not going to put ourselves under the bishops. We see what is happening with St. Peter’s (FSSP) and the others. They are totally locked. Because they are totally in the hands of the bishops. And we say no. We are not going that way.

    And in fact, Rome is offering us a new body. At the head, a bishop. This bishop, chosen by the pope, with (from) three names, which a presented by the Society and taken in the Society. This bishop will have authority above (over) the priests. Above the religious who want to be members. And above the Faithful. All Sacraments, (to) the Faithful (who) will belong to this body, will have the strict right to receive all the Sacraments from priests of the Society. All Sacraments, Marriage included. The bishop will have the right to have schools, seminaries, ordinations. Even to make new religious congregations. And accept inside, other who would like to join. It is something like a super diocese. Autonomous from the local bishops. In other words, for you, no change to what you have now. The only thing, it will be with the recognition that you are Catholics.

    You can imagine that… that will create a lot of conflicts, with the local bishops. You can easily imagine that. So we have to remain prudent there. But in itself, you cannot imagine anything better, then what is offered there. And such a thing that you cannot think, that’s a trap. It’s not a trap. And if somebody is offering something like that, it can be only because he wants good to us. He wants the good of Tradition, he wants Tradition to say, spread in the Church. It is impossible to think that such a thing could be invented by enemies. The enemies have many other ways to crush us down. Not that.

    You may say, well if that’s the thing, why don’t you accept? Because I want to be sure that this is true. I don’t, I do not have the right to live in a dream. And so I have to check every step.

    So now that Bishop Fellay has kindly filled in some details, let us put these details into our checklist, using the observations we made at the end of the Desperately Seeking Reconciliation post. Here is how the situation looks now:

    the SSPX will not budge.
    Still the case.

    Francis desperately needs a reconciliation.
    Still the case.

    The reason Francis desperately needs reconciliation is in order to gain some sort of control over the SSPX and ring-fence the NORMALIZATION PROCESS™ inside the Ecclesia Dei Commission. Hence Diocesan bishops must consult with the Vatican before establishing a diocesan religious order, Pope Francis ruled.
    This has changed. It would appear now that the SSPX will be the only congregation inside the Catholic Chruch that will be able to establish new religious orders without earlier Vatican permission.

    Francis needs to gain control over the SSPX so as to block off any escape route for the Catholics stuck in NUChurch. Hence clampdown on contemplative orders.
    This has changed. It would appear now that Francis is proposing a “fast-track” escape route for the contemplative orders and all other orders presently experiencing a “Lefebvrist drift”, to come directly under the SSPX. It is as if he is giving them a massive incentive to take advantage of this option. An example would be the Franciscans of the Immaculate (now that the mainline Franciscans understand that the FFI had no property in their name- see here). If the above is true, they can elect to move their congregation under the SSPX Personal Prelature. Or at least, there would be no obstructions for this to happen.

    Francis is planning a repression of the larger Western Church and understands that it will not go as easily as with the suppression of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate. Hence Come una madre amorevole in case of rebellion.
    This has not changed. It would appear that the SSPX will be the only “safe” congregation since even if Francis removes an SSPX bishop, he gets the name of three new candidates from the SSPX from which to chose. NB: By this move, Francis is returning to an earlier age where popes and kings had formal agreements for the appointment of bishops. This is the case with the Portuguese bishop that was elevated at the 2015 consistory. But the diocesan ordinary cannot move his diocese under the SSPX, so he is still subject to the ‘Come una madre amorevole’.

    But most importantly, Francis needs to do something IMMEDIATELY since the Restoration is spreading in the Catholic Church, especially in the wealthy Western countries.
    This has changed. It would appear that Francis is allowing for the spread of Tradition, but in a “controlled environment”. It appears, as a cynic would no doubt say, as if he is trying to create a parallel church, which he can, in the future separate in one fell swoop.

    The neo-modernist’s who support Francis are freaking out since they see that with their demise, so will end their Novus Ordo NUChurch.
    This has not changed. This above might be a plan that will placate the neo-Modernists presently, since it kicks the proverbial “can down the road” and could be sold as a way to “contain” the spread of Catholicism inside the Catholic Church. What it will also do is limit the number of bishops friendly to Tradition outside the SSPX and will in theory open more slots for the neo-Modernists. Think about it. If for example, the Dominicans decide they want to be part of the SSPX Personal Prelature, they will not then have any new bishops consecrated or appointed to diocesan positions since they will be under the SSPX bishop.

    This will end their IDEOLOGICAL life’s work and consign them to not only the trash-heap of history, but will earn them the hatred of future generations of the Faithful.
    This has not changed. Regardless of what Francis does, the outcome will be the same. Our Lord did promise us that the gates of hell will not prevail.

    Concluding, what we are observing is the the SSPX has been given an “offer that they cannot refuse”. This offer was given to them by Archbishop Pozzo, the Secretary of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei and a member of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Archbishop Pozzo has given the SSPX undertakings that clearly contradict the neo-Modernist’s “spirit of Vatican II” by admitting that the VII as a “super dogma” is a fallacious understanding of the intent of the fathers of the Second Vatican Council.

    In turn, the immediate superior of Archbishop Pozzo holds a diametrically opposing opinion. Card. Muller holds that VII is a “super dogma” and has to be completely accepted by the SSPX before the “regularization” process can be completed.

    Therefore, it would appear that Archbishop Pozzo is acting on instructions, but due to the nature of the undertakings which have been defined (in draft form) to date, it must be assumed that the mandate that Archbishop Pozzo is working under has come from a higher authority than the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, i.e. his immediate superior.

    As to the negotiated undertakings themselves, it would appear that the SSPX would be allowed to function in the Catholic Church under a Personal Prelature from Francis, bishop of Rome or a “super diocese” as Bishop Fellay described it. The key points to this “super dioceses” would be that the SSPX would:

    Have their own bishop, autonomous of any other diocesan bishop,

    the right to exclusively function under the pre VII liturgical regime, i.e. 1962 Missale Romanum,

    have exclusivity over the priests, religious and Faithful under their care,

    have the right to a bishop exclusively from their community,

    and have the right to establish new communities and accept existing commuities who want to come into their structure.

    Summa summarum, it appears as what neo-Modernist Rome is proposing is a parallel Church, call it an Indefectible Church which would be created and “subsist” inside the neo-Modernist Roman Church.

    So these are the Known Knows as of today.

    • UPDATE: 09:50 7 September 2016

      Over at Hilary White’s What’s up with FrancisChurch? blog, in the comment box of the post titled “Yes, yes it is.”, the following comment appeared from John Lamont. (I think it might be the one whose work your humble blogger [i.e., S. Armaticus] continuously references). Here is what Mr. Lamont wrote:

      John Lamont says:

      Sep 07, 2016

      The argument for accepting this offer is the following:
      – All the previous traps offered to the Society have required some kind of concession; acceptance of all of Vatican II, acknowledgement of the legitimacy of the Novus Ordo, etc. No concession is demanded here.
      – This fatally weakens the power of the Roman authorities to make unacceptable demands down the road. The basis of the original illegal suppression of the Society by Paul VI was the claim that its positions on Vatican II and the Novus Ordo were unacceptable. The mere fact of legitimising the Society without conditions destroys this basis permanently. There can no longer be any arguments presented as arguments of principle for requiring the Society to abandon its positions after such a regularisation.
      – This weakening makes accepting such an offer a serious option even though it no doubt is intended as a trap of some kind.
      – The ripple effect of such an action in the Church will make it much harder to spring the trap, because the legitimising of the position of the Society will destroy the whole neoconservative position and spread this position far beyond its borders. It will produce a spreading insurrection where the Roman authorities will have too many defeats and distractions to operate the subjection of the SSPX.

      The crucial underlying factor is that the main enemy of tradition is not crass modernists of Francis’s stamp. but the neoconservatives. The latter believed in themselves as the true Catholics and were able to put this self-presentation as Catholics across effectively. Francis, Madariaga et hoc genus omne cannot do this convincingly.

      I am providing the above since if gives CONTEXT to the present situation as opposed to that which existed between the 1970’s and the end of the Benedict papacy.

  2. S. Armaticus:
    Great analysis. But can one trust Franciscus and his cohorts? How would the matter stand in Germany with the current bishops’ conference there, or any of such anywhere for that matter? Under the decentralisation/devolution, plans of Franciscus, is he creating ‘national churches, wherein SSPX could be declared anathema over a wider area than a diocese? +Fellay might be better deployed in fostering an alliance with the other Traditional Orders, clergy, religious and laity – before doing any deal with Franciscus. Better, perhaps to await the successor to Franciscus, and ascertain whether or not we are faced with another ‘rigged’ papal election. I would wait.

  3. Get it in writing, publicly acknowledged. Then push back to get four new bishops chosen by +Fellay. If Rome says no, then all bets off.

  4. I would like to see some formal statement from Ecclesia Dei or CDF that acceptance of the legitimacy of all the teachings of Vatican II and of the Novus Ordo is not to be required of seminarians, clergy, theologians, instructors in Catholic institutions or of those in formation for religious life. Since such acceptance is apparently no longer a condition of recognition of the SSPX, why would it not also apply to any Catholic?

    • As someone observed, Anthony, even were Francis to do zilch after getting the deal he wants, who can say what follows once he’s gone?

      The Society should simply ignore Rome’s “deal” and reply diplomatically that, given what has come out of Rome in the past 3+ years, it is theologically AND morally impossible for the SSPX to endanger its future, a possibility not even a pope may ever pose legitimately.

      If the sexual indoctrination document just released and the new Blitzkrieg against ALL contemplative nuns in the world aren’t enough to convince the Society that the time for any further discussion with Rome has ceased until Rome returns to being Catholic. Period.

      • You’re probably right. But… how can I hold your position unless I am ready to go SSPX (that is, SSPX-without-canonical-recognition) myself?
        As a side-note, I read one comment which described aging SSPX communities in Europe (with France being the exception). In other words, the future of the Society may be in jeopardy in other ways than possible persecution from the current regime in Rome.
        It is very difficult to see the Hand of Divine Providence in the midst of this crisis.

        • I’m not SSPX, Anthony. I never saw it as more than a battle flag around which the troops could rally. Plus, I nearly needed a chiropractor after being forced to sit for an hour and listen to long-winded SSPX perorations from the pulpit that, in my opinion were excessive insofar as the folks in the pew were already of the same opinion. That happened only a handful of times and I’ve never been back, since.

          I think Abp Lefebvre was being heroically Catholic (i.e., offering combat against forces intent on destroying the Church from within) when he termed any “deal” would be suicidal prior to Rome’s return to the Catholic Faith governed by Sacred Tradition. That still holds.

          If the Society “takes a deal” it will commit suicide.

          The men running around in Rome have abandoned all pretext of being Catholic but they will happily seize the SSPX parishes, demolish the little religious houses who subscribe to the Society’s position and theologically castrate the clerics, just as they did to the FSSP – which, btw, I hear in at least one instance, is now permitting altar girlies.

          This horrific attack, from Rome and from the world that the Modernists worship, is against divine law, against common sense and against the true purpose of the Church, to preach and to offer the Sacraments in order to save souls.

          ModRome could care less and it would be the height of stupidity to even pay attention to whatever it “offers” until Rome returns to the Faith.

          Which is, I hope, a position +Fellay will come to defend. He sounded more encouraging not very long ago and I hope he returns to that stance, as in right now.

  5. I trust Our Lord, and Our Lady that They are not leading Bp. Fellay and the SSPX into the Lion’s Den. And I trust Bp. Fellay to follow and do the will of God. If the Society ends up united to Rome, I believe and trust that is in God’s goodness and providence.

    Bp. Fellay just announced a Rosary Crusade which we began last month, to continue until August 22, 2017. The goal set by Bp. Fellay is 12 million Rosaies and 50 million sacrifices for Our Lady of Fatima! One of the intentions of this Rosary Crusade is “Pray that the Blessed Virgin Mary protect the SSPX and all the religious communities of Tradition”. With such a bouquet, a gift, presented to the Mother of Our Savior, who dare think She will let us down?!

  6. Catherine, I agree with you completely!
    I met Bp. Fellay, He took over 3 hours of his time to give a private Holy Communion and Confirmation to two ladies with special needs. He took the time to talk to these gals along with us. He did not need to do this as the Priest could of given Holy Communion and Confirmation isn’t mandatory.
    I respect and trust the Holy Bishop.
    What do people think, that he is a moron?
    They give no credit to him, and really what it comes down to is they have little or NO confidence in God Almighty and His Holy Mother!

  7. So true, Cindy. First off, Bishop Fellay is not about to hand over the Society of Saint Pius X just so it can be destroyed. What many seem to forget, the SSPX has been entrusted to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and Her Maternal care. She will not let evil overtake that which is consecrated to Her. It is inconceivable!

  8. Catherine you summed it up perfectly in those 3 sentences!
    .
    What many seem to forget, the SSPX has been entrusted to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and Her Maternal care. She will not let evil overtake that which is consecrated to Her. It is inconceivable!

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