LaVoris Blows a Gasket, Again (Yawn…)

[ Looks like subscriptions are slumping because here comes the old rainmaker argument, again…. /gpmtrad ]


Well, let’s get straight to it, shall we?

The SSPX, the Society of St. Pius X — a group of clerics and bishops who do not exercise any legitimate ministry in the Catholic Church owing to their refusal to submit to the authority and jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff, owing to their doctrinal issues regarding Vatican II — have recently posted a video which says all you need to hear.

By the way, that assessment of the SSPX is that of Pope Benedict, merely repeated by

First, here are the words of the video, full screen so you can see them for yourselves.

“This is the reason Catholics are not obliged to attend the New Mass to fulfill their Sunday precept.”


“The New Mass is to be completely avoided as they understand it is an offense against God.”

Lest anyone say we are misquoting or misrepresenting these quotes, here they are straight from the mouth of an official spokesman priest for the SSPX U.S.A. District straight from the home page of the SSPX.

[Watch video here]

Earlier the priest says the New Mass is a danger to souls.

Now stop for a moment and consider what this priest is saying: The New Mass, meaning the Mass of Pope Paul VI, the Novus Ordo, is an offense against God. A Mass approved by and offered by the popes of Our Blessed Lord’s Holy Catholic Church and nearly every single bishop is an offense against God. Further, you are instructed not to go to Mass on Sunday if you must go to a Novus Ordo, New Mass.

This is a classic case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Sure, there are abuses that occur in the New Mass owing to all kinds of issues that we point out here on the Vortex all the time.

But those abuses are just that — abuses. And they are to be placed at the feet of errant bishops, lazy unfaithful priests, dissident theologians and so forth. But to tell Catholics to stay home and not attend Mass on Sunday and refuse to fulfill their Sunday obligation to assist at the sacrifice of the Mass is beyond imagining. To call the Mass an “offense against God”? Are you serious? To encourage people to commit mortal sin by refusing to fulfill their Sunday obligation?

But it’s good that this video is out there because now the mask can finally be taken off this renegade outfit.

Let us share with you what Pope Benedict says of them: “In order to make this clear once again: Until the doctrinal questions are clarified, the Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church.”

Those are the words of Peter himself, the Supreme Pontiff. He continued, “This will make it clear that the problems now to be addressed [by the SSPX] are essentially doctrinal in nature and concern primarily the acceptance of the Second Vatican Council.”

The SSPX has played this game for decades now that their major issue has been the Traditional Mass versus the Novus Ordo, the New Mass. And while they certainly do have issues with the New Mass, their real problems — as the Pope himself says — are that they reject the Second Vatican Council — not have some questions about it, not want to sit down for discussions and more clarity, but doctrinal issues — doctrinal issues which place them outside the Church, not in full communion, as His Holiness phrased it — which is shorthand for schism.

The cheerleaders for the SSPX would have you believe that various prelates support them without an issue or doubt. Really?

Do they really expect that these prelates would support the notion that you must stay at home on Sunday and refuse to go to Mass and just say a private Rosary because the Mass you would be attending is the New Mass? Really?

Would these prelates that they pretend are all in on the SSPX — would they really say that the New Mass is an offense — an offense — against God?

Yet this is exactly, precisely, without any ambiguity, no clarification needed, what the official mouthpiece of the SSPX says — right out loud for the whole world to hear: The New Mass is to be avoided; you are not obliged to attend it on Sundays; it is an offense against God.

Even in the face of the Pope himself, they say they pray for him and put his picture up in their buildings, and they obey him — until they don’t. They decry the Mass. They encourage people to mortal sin. They defy the Pope. They refuse the obedience due him.

If that doesn’t constitute a schism, pray tell, what does?

Even Bp. Robert Morlino of Madison, Wisconsin had to issue a statement last week saying that this group — the SSPX — was to be avoided: “Have nothing to do with them.”

He instructed:

The priests of the SSPX, because for the most part they were ordained illicitly (i.e., by a bishop who had no jurisdiction over them and no permission to ordain), they are suspended ipso facto from the moment of their ordination. … [T]hey have no permission from the Church, which is necessary, to exercise priestly ministry. Their Masses are valid but are illegitimately celebrated. Catholics should not frequent SSPX chapels or seek sacraments from the priests of the SSPX.

Pray for the leaders of the SSPX to abandon their disobedience and for the supporters to understand (as so many of them already have) that when you cut yourself off from Peter, you are lost, no matter how Catholic it may look.

You don’t break away from the Church to fix it. That’s what Martin Luther did — a man who was every bit convinced of the rightness of his position as the SSPX is today.

Think about it: “The Mass is an offense against God.” “It is to be completely avoided.” “The Society has no canonical status in the Church.” “Its ministers do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church.” “The problems now to be addressed are essentially doctrinal.”

That is quite a mouthful.

Whom do you choose? The Pope — or an outfit with no canonical status whose ministers do not legitimately exercise any ministry?

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19 comments on “LaVoris Blows a Gasket, Again (Yawn…)

  1. The primary law of the Church, Mr. Voris, is the salvation of souls and not obedience to the Pope. Members of the SSPX who caution people to avoid the new Mass do so because they believe the abuses often associated with it present a danger to one’s soul. That’s it in a nutshell and they accept the lawful jurisdiction of the Pope, by the way, as long as it does not interfere with the primary law of the Church. So, take your antipathy towards the SSPX somewhere else. It most certainly is not welcome here.

  2. It is DOCTRINAL teaching from an actually Catholic Pope that one may not approach “doubtful sacraments.” (It’s in Denzinger, btw)

    But that means nothing to the CMtv crowd. After all, that’s PRE-Vatican II so it doesn’t even exist.

    Any more than the fact that Pope Benedict XVI hisself wrote that SSPX is NOT schismatic.

    The stupid… it burns!

  3. “You don’t break away from the Church to fix it. That’s what Martin Luther did — a man who was every bit convinced of the rightness of his position as the SSPX is today.”

    First off I’ll just state that I have no connection whatsoever to the FSSPX.

    Unlike Luther, the FSSPX, nor any other traditionalist Catholic outside of the BLEEPS have broken away from the Church!

    The SSPX upholds every dogma of the faith that Holy Mother Church has taught for two-thousand years.

    If anything, it’s the popes you defend that have broken away from the teachings of the Lord and His Church by going off into modernism, religious relativism, indifferentism and, with this pope Marxism!

    But hey, the conciliar popes morons like you Voris worship and defend think Luther’s “church” and his followers are real Christians and don’t need to convert to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church and Her teachings in union with the Pope and the bishops to have a chance at salvation.

    So it looks like you are not only a hypocrite, but allied with the heresies of Luther!

    But phonies like you Voris are in this for the money aren’t you?

    So to you and to your fellow neo-Catholic papolator mental midgets salvation takes a back seat to the almighty dollar and to defending the indefensible so you can feign being an orthodox Catholic. You’re not fooling us buddy boy!

    So put that in your pipe and smoke it!

  4. ^^^ Heh heh heh, St Francis!

    I hope LaVoris actually sees that one.

    • Even cleans your brain right out of your skull!

      • ….better to plant whatever seeds VORIS decides to introduce.

        Question: Whom do you choose? The Pope — or an outfit (CMTV) with no canonical status(because they are a self styled lay ‘apostolate’) whose ministers (correction: talking heads to include indoctrinated prepubescents who will hop on any venue if only they can play grownup when the law and even parents say no) do not legitimately exercise any ministry (… or even the common logic of not deriding His Excellency Bishop Schneider by calling him a learned and holy man, but still think he’d be foolish enough to speak out as he did just because of a few pics in the sacristy and prayers for the Holy Father.)?

        Projection is an ugly think, Michael Voris.

  5. “Now stop for a moment and consider what this priest is saying: The New Mass, meaning the Mass of Pope Paul VI, the Novus Ordo, is an offense against God. ”

    I’ve stopped for considerably more than a moment, and considered what “this priest” is saying at some length. I have come to the unavoidable conclusion that he is correct.

  6. What Mike doesn’t get, and what Bp. Schneider made clear is that the SSPX is in the Church. Pope Benedict removed the excommunication, a prerogative reserved to the pope, and the pope did it. What Mike must supply is how they’ve since excommunicated themselves. Failure to submit to the pope? A serious charge, one that Bp. Schneider doesn’t agree with. They’ve continued to ordain priests and offer sacraments without legal approval. But have they thumbed their noses at the pope? They continue to have some level of discussion, but Rome will never admit that there is room to criticize V-II. Hence, Rome is withholding canonical status to protect the Council, their charter for novelty.

    Is everyone who has a problem with V-II out of the Church? That’s Mike’s premise. With that, we’re back to the same-old same-old, I’m a good Catholic and you’re not. As Our Lord said, “They are like to children sitting in the marketplace, and speaking one to another, and saying: We have piped to you, and you have not danced: we have mourned, and you have not wept.”

    On the other hand, no priest has the authority to dispense the Sunday obligation. No, you don’t have to go to fag masses, clown masses, party masses, or the sort. But you have to put some effort into finding a reverent priest if you can’t find a TLM. Or find another rite. And you should let your bishop know — and let him know that he doesn’t get a dime from you.

    Years back, Fr. Scott, SSPX, while in Kansas City even went so far as to tell folks not to resort to indult Masses while SSPX Masses were unavailable due to chapter meetings. Again, no priest has the authority to dispense Sunday obligation, and souls who follow that bad advice are yet responsible.

    This is crisis time, war time, yes. We have no obligation to support the Novus Ordo, the priests and bishops who maintain this novelty, and not even the pope. (There are a multitude of ways of fulfilling our precept without giving money to the apparatus that continues the enslavement.) Ultimately, however, it’s a punishment from the Good God, punishment for us along with the others.

    If the SSPX wants to exclude N.O. goers from their chapels, that’s their business. I don’t agree. But it doesn’t constitute schism.

  7. Does it necessary follow that SSPX wants to exclude N.O. goers from their chapels, if they counsel against attending the N.O. Masses? Or am I missing something?

    • Well, put yourself in the position of some N.O. goer, say, an inlaw or friend. They try a visit to the SSPX and hear “don’t go to the N.O.” That’s a line in the sand, from their perspective. Most won’t come back, I’d expect. Or they learn from you that they can’t be godparents to your kids. That doesn’t help them come to Tradition.

      • Good points. I wonder if Michael Voris would concede that at least the position of SSPX on not attending N.O. Masses is consistent with their conviction that the Novus Ordo Missae is illicit?

  8. Not to beat a dead horse, but what I believe the SSPX position is – the novus ordo presents a danger to one’s soul so it should be avoided. This is essentially the position taken by Cardinals Ottaviani and Bacci in their letter to PaulVI and most especially the study by eminent theologians which was an attachment to the letter. When a SSPX priest or one of the independent traditional orders says to avoid the new Mass, they are saying that to protect the faithful from the abuses which are often associated with it and not to advocate missing Mass on Sundays or telling the pope to go jump in the lake. It is the modernists who say the SSPX is outside the Church, not the Pope. The best thing to tell a NO adherent before attending an SSPX Mass is to read thoroughly the Ottaviani Intervention before attending the SSPX Mass. It will put things in proper perspective.

  9. The heaping helping mouthful is the horse dung VORIS presents to his fan base in opposition to the Pope (appointments, policies, etc) while deriding others that are open and consistent in their position. A position based on Catholic doctrine.

    CMTV’s utter abuse of His Excellency Bishop Schneider in stating that he is a holy and learned man, and as such, that it would be foolish to disregard his prudential assessments only to proceed to portray his Excellency as just giving a random opinion is head spinning.

    And yet the ignorant masses flock to CMTV to ‘feel’ as if they know Catholic Faith. Much like paying a ransom to attend what advertises itself to be an Ivy League college only to walk away with the credentials to strum the air guitar or imaginary piano. CMTV should be shut down and Michael Voris castigated for his attempt to circumvent not only lawful authority, but his obvious attempt to treat the magisterium as if it’s a matter of CNN vs Fox.

    News Flash! Shocking Revelation: It appears that Michael VORIS uses product in his hair. Horrifying details at 11:00PM.

    …. and we all thought it was natural! What a faker!

    Good grief.

  10. “Is everyone else who has a problem with V2 out of the Church?”

    Good question.

    What about all those Catholics who do not believe in the Real Presence? You know, the MAJORITY? Oddly enough, THEY are in full “communion.” Provided they are cool with Vatican II.

  11. Michael loves to play the legal trump card, but he’s not willing to admit that doctrine and Tradition are of higher legal status, as Paul pointed out, above. It’s not to say that, when the pope and bishops are wavering in doctrine that you can ignore their office, but that you can do what is necessary to feed your soul. In other words, the faithful have the right to seek out a priest who has the Faith and will supply them the sacraments according to Tradition, and priests have the right and duty to serve the faithful.

    What Mike won’t admit is that the pope and bishops are failing to provide pure Catholic worship and doctrine:
    – that the N.O. is a “striking departure from the Catholic theology of the Mass as it was formulated in Session 22 of the Council of Trent”
    – that Rome approves ordaining homos, and one shouldn’t be forced to discern if a priest has that affliction
    – that priests are taught either explicitly or implicitly that non-Catholics can save their souls, and this heresy abounds in the N.O. churches.
    – that rarely are the faithful expected to dress properly for Mass
    – that bishops teach sex to kids in schools, and even perverse and mortally sinful acts are described in texts with imprimatur
    – that even the best of N.O. Catholics practice birth control, NFP, as taught by clergy, to the same effect of limiting family size as seen among the pagans
    – that socialism is taught everywhere
    – etc. etc.

    This is a horrendous crisis, and the faithful have every right to keep themselves away from these errors, impurities and impieties. This is an enormous abuse of authority, oppression of the spiritually poor, that cries to Heaven for vengeance. But Mike says, don’t go to an SSPX chapel.

    Mike, you are part of the problem. Your error of covering for the errors of Pope Francis is one matter, but your keeping the faithful from seeking out solid priests to nourish their faith is a crime.

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