Detroit Bankruptcy…..VORIS

I understand your frustration Michael. But, you must realize that these folks are in “full communion” and in “good standing.” The MOST important thing is(despite how bad these folks appear to be) is to stay away from the “partial communion” crowd……like the…….drum roll……………………………………..the EVIL and Wascally SSPX. Yeah, these “dissidents” as you call them are a problem, but hey, they at least support “dialogue”. On the other hand, that “schismatic” Bishop Fellay and his gang keep clinging to the Faith of 2000 years…….boy, they are DANGEROUS!!!!! Doesn’t Bishop Fellay have the “good sense” to recognize that the modern movers and shakers have finally found the “deficiencies” in the original Deposit of Faith and that they are simply trying to implement what the Apostles and Popes and Councils “missed”. Better to go to these “confrences” of “dissidents” than to attend a Mass offered by a “dangerous” SSPX priest who is at best only in “partial communion.” What pecentage of “communion” are these “partial communion” folk in…..90%, 78%, 51%, perhaps less? Could you find the Catholic doctrine for affixing this percentage…..I would at least like to attend where there is at least 51%. Does outright HERESY fit into the formula? I would think not, considering who is running around these days in the “full communion” and “good standing” categories!!!!

Michael, you bring up many good concerns, but because it may cost you subscribers, you ignore the obvious and do not address the “sticky” issues…..like Fatima, the deficiencies of the Novus Ordo and the ERRORS in V2 and the watered down requirements for beatification and canonization and the subtle inclusion of modernist theology in the CCC…….the list goes on. Until you directly confront these issues you will be spinning your wheels with no forward progress for souls….but perhaps forward progress for you bank account. Remember you cannot serve God and mammon and that you are either with Christ or against him….there are no half-measures….I believe that you have it in you to make the leap to broadcasting the TRUTH, but it will cost you dearly in temporal terms…..you remain in my prayers for this courage to set in as you can do much good in your position if you have the guts to “offend” those neo-cons and “soft-trads” who make up the bulk of your audience. God Bless you Michael and crew.

From: ChurchMilitant.TV
To: tim
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 8:09 PM
Subject: Detroit Bankruptcy

Dear Friend in Christ,

Motown goes belly up! Please watch this episode of the Vortex and pass it to your family and friends.

And don’t forget to tune into our radio show on TV on the internet; Mic’D Up – this week, we’re talking about Freemasons and homosexuals inside the Church. Click here to listen live or call in at 8PM Eastern, Wednesday 18th September.

GOD Bless you and your loved ones,
Michael Voris
~senior executive producer at ChurchMilitant.TV
To unsubscribe from ChurchMilitant.TV mailings, visit this webpage. You are subscribed with the email address tim
For information on ChurchMilitant.TV speaking engagements, visit this webpage

Facebook
Twitter
Google+
http://angelqueen.org/2013/09/18/detroit-bankruptcy-voris/
Get AQ Email Updates
AQ RSS Feed

12 comments on “Detroit Bankruptcy…..VORIS

  1. Ok, so I just re-watched this video, and it seems like you’re attacking Voris for something completely different than what he’s talking about. He’s pointing out the failures of the authorities in the Church to protect the faith from heresy & schism, and you’re chastising him for WHAT exactly?

    While Voris may not attend SSPX chapels, he certainly has been on the record as advocating FOR the SSPX in achieving a canonical status with Rome.

    Tim, don’t attack a guy who is HELPING, not HURTING you!

  2. Lucas with due respect, know what your talking about. Whether Voris advocates canonical status for the Society is not the point. The point is that he is on record as steering people clear of the Society because they are not, in his opinion, in Communion with the Church.

    • quomodo: first of all, it’s spelled “you’re”.

      For what it’s worth, I attend an SSPX chapel about 50% of the time (FSSP the other 50%), and I’m very sympathetic to their situation. It would be helpful if you (or someone) could provide SOMETHING coming from Voris that shows him “steering people away” from the Society. It’s helpful to remember that the Society isn’t THE Church. I’m NOT playing down any scandal coming from Rome, but just because someone isn’t a member of the Society, or a Society apologist doesn’t mean their faith is deficient…

      So, with due respect, please know what YOU’RE talking about. Study some history!

      • Lucas, your ridiculous ad hominem — does it mean YOU’RE grabbing at straws. Pardon the typo.

        Steve and Lucas, Voris’ statement against the Society calling them outside of Communion with the Church, and again reiterating his position came up on a simple google search. I’ll post it later on for you later. If YOU’RE willing to wait.

  3. I continue to be at a loss as to what you might be talking about. I’ve heard Voris talk about SSPX, and I’ve NEVER hear him say ANYTHING negative about SSPX. I’ve heard him say many things which would seem to support the positions of SSPX.

    Exactly when did he say these terrible things? Yesterday? 5 years ago?

    The link did not support your claim.

    • I might add that Michael Voris is speaking at a conference this very weekend sponsored by Angelus Press–as well as The Remnant and Catholic Family News. Why would he do that if he was opposed to SSPX?

    • Tim, I think that gpmtrad carries the water, but I don’t agree with your response–exactly.

      That is, I think there is much truth to what you say, but I have objections:

      1. I think you carry your points too far: I have heard him say some things which go to some of these issues.

      2. I understand your intention, but your articles nevertheless do not come across that way to me: if you want to talk to him, I would suggest that you do vice some of these articles.

      3. Things are so bad, that I think that if somebody is doing a hundred things good, this is not the time for complaining that the person is NOT doing a thousand other things that also must be done. (But, again, I think that gpmtrad’s points are well take.)

      4. Voris is on a trajectory: where that will take him, I don’t know. But keep in mind that the trajectory didn’t even start until Obama’s speech as Notre Dame: which wasn’t all that long ago. That was the emotional jolt for him that changed his approach.

  4. Steve and Lucas: I’ve seen references to letters received by members of this forum addressed to LaVoris and which DID specify that his organization did NOT recognize the Society as a Catholic organization “in good standing”, etc. Now, these references appeared more than two years ago.

    Has his new operation changed its stance? I don’t know. Nor do I care. He has done some genuine good pointing out in video form what even the Wanderer has been saying for decades. Beyond that, and only lately, his reports have had a bit more tang.

    I note your point about his scheduled appearance at an Angelus / CFN event. If it is a sign he’s beginning to make the Trad circuit, I would only be speculating either way were I to guess at what that means to LaVoris.

    Even Gary Matatics and Michael Jones, PhD have made that circuit now and again without ever offering subsequent evidence of changing their positions. Matatics is an over the top and on his way to the moon BLEEP! and Jones has written time and again in bitter terms against the Society.

    A close associate with extensive connections internationally mentioned to me some months back that LaVoris has a new, quiet backer with Opie Dopie roots, according to one source he trusts. That would explain the numerous foreign visits, the new wardrobe and the most basic fact of all – that his little “network”, so to speak, remains on the air at all.

    I do not oppose the man or his message. As I said, some good is coming out of it and the more Nervous Ordealers he can awaken and even enrage, the better.

    However, I do now, as I did a few years back when I first saw the programming, wish to caution Trads from becoming unduly optimistic in this instance.

  5. Steve and Lucas, what follows is a post that Voris’ associate wrote in defense of rctv’s (now church militant) position on the Society. I received a very similar reply from the same Terry, as Gpm trad pointed out, about two years ago. About six months ago I sent Voris an email congratulating him for a video I saw. The response I got six months ago recommended I become a Catholic.

    I said that a link at the very beginning of the quote from the other blog site contains CMTV’s “official response” to those who ask our “opinion” about the SSPX.

    I then said that our “Sedevacantism: General Response” is “germane” to the discussion of the SSPX because, in that “General Response,” we focus on the importance of visible unity with the visible Church. It is impossible to conclude, from our “official response” on the status of the SSPX and our discussion of the importance of visible unity with the visible Church that we think the SSPX is sedevacantist. We know that is not true and we have said so.

    Our “Sedevacantism: General Response” is too long to copy here as a posting, but our “official response” to the SSPX is not, so I am going to copy it here. No one here has given any evidence of having read either document but everyone seems to have an opinion of what it must say. Here is the CMTV “official response” to inquiries about the SSPX:

    Quote:
    The position of ChurchMilitant.TV concerning the SSPX is that of the Holy Father, Pope Benedict XVI, as expressed in his motu proprio Ecclesiae Unitatem, issued July 2, 2009:

    Quote:
    In the same spirit and with the same commitment to encouraging the resolution of all fractures and divisions in the Church and to healing a wound in the ecclesial fabric that was more and more painfully felt, I wished to remit the excommunication of the four Bishops illicitly ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre. With this decision I intended to remove an impediment that might have jeopardized the opening of a door to dialogue and thereby to invite the Bishops and the “Society of St Pius X” to rediscover the path to full communion with the Church. As I explained in my Letter to the Catholic Bishops of last 10 March, the remission of the excommunication was a measure taken in the context of ecclesiastical discipline to free the individuals from the burden of conscience constituted by the most serious of ecclesiastical penalties. However, the doctrinal questions obviously remain and until they are clarified the Society has no canonical status in the Church and its ministers cannot legitimately exercise any ministry.

    There are two important points here:

    1) The SSPX are not in full communion with the Church and are invited by the Church to rediscover this path.

    2) The SSPX has no canonical status in the Church and its ministers cannot legitimately exercise any ministry.

    We are well aware of ongoing dialog between the SSPX and Rome. It is to be fervently hoped that these dialogs result in a return of the SSPX to full communion with the Church, granting their bishops and clergy canonical status and the authority to exercise ministry. Until such time as this occurs, our judgment must remain that of the Holy Father.

    • Thanks for the information!

      He had a lot of talks with people over the weekend of this excellent conference: we’ll see what the results may be.

      I don’t expect him to be a SSPX apologist, but I would like to see him, and his staff, come to the understanding that we are all in this together.

      My own view is that if you think there are serious problems with SSPX you are correct! Where I would strongly disagree is if somebody were to claim that there were NOT serious problems with diocesan parishes, FSSP, et al.

      The point is that we ALL have serious problem until the hierarchy comes to their senses, and we have to act like brothers and sisters in Christ during this serious crises. And each person must prayerfully decide the best option for one’s own geographical area.

      As for me, I go to an approved mass which is local, and to SSPX for retreats and other special events.

Leave a Reply