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8 Comments to “Liturgy is foundation of personal prayer, Pope tells audience: “it cannot be created or amended by the individual community or by experts””

  1. Tom says:

    If the liturgy “cannot be created or amended … by experts,” then who has been doing such since Pope Pius XII established the Pontifical Commission for the Reform of the Liturgy (separate from the Sacred Congregation of Rites) in 1948?

    Hint: Below is pictured (from the Rorate Caeli post) the tomb of one intimately involved with that and later similar pontifical/conciliar/post-conciliar commissions until his unceremonial sacking in 1975:

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  2. land of the irish says:

    “Liturgy is foundation of personal prayer, Pope tells audience: “it cannot be created or amended by the individual community or by experts”

    Yet who modified the traditional Good Friday prayer for the Jews by his lonesome? Who was the other one who added the “glow-in-the-dark” mysteries to Our Lady’s Rosary by his lonesome?

  3. Cyprian says:

    Liturgy is foundation of personal prayer, Pope tells audience: “it cannot be created or amended by the individual community or by experts”

    Hahahaha

    It’s sad when the pope stoops as low as our obfuscater-in-chief B. Hussein.

  4. land of the irish says:

    Actually, even the Our Father has been amended to appease the Protestants, with VC II’s insertion of the refrain, “For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory forever and ever”.

    Before VC II, that had never been in the Catholic Our Father prayer. The traditional Our Father ends with, “deliver us from evil. Amen.”

    The mason Bugnini inserted the protestant ending, invented out of whole cloth, and moved the “Amen” after it, implying the new prayer was continuous and one.

    • Tom says:

      Although it is an innovative addition to the Roman liturgy (presumably inspired by its presence in some Eastern Catholic liturgies), it is not “invented out of whole cloth,” but according to Wikipedia (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord's_Prayer#.22For_thine_is_the_kingdom.2C_and_the_power.2C_and_the_glory.2C_for_ever_and_ever._Amen.22):

      The doxology of the prayer is not contained in Luke’s version, nor is it present in the earliest manuscripts of Matthew, representative of the Alexandrian text, but is present in the manuscripts representative of the Byzantine text. It is thus absent in the oldest and best manuscripts of Matthew, and most scholars do not consider it part of the original text of Matthew. Modern translations generally omit it.

      The first known use of the doxology, in a less lengthy form (“for yours is the power and the glory forever”), as a conclusion for the Lord’s Prayer (in a version slightly different from that of Matthew) is in the Didache, 8:2. It has similarities with 1 Chronicles 29:11 – “Yours, O LORD, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty, for all that is in the heavens and in the earth is yours. Yours is the kingdom, O LORD, and you are exalted as head above all.” In Orthodox Christianity and Byzantine Rite Eastern Catholic Churches, a similar doxology is sung within the context of the Divine Liturgy. Following the last line of the prayer, the priest sings “For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory, of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto ages of ages”. Latin Rite Roman Catholics, as well as some Lutherans, do not use it when reciting the Lord’s Prayer, but it has been included as an independent item, not as part of the Lord’s Prayer, in the Roman Rite Mass. The Anglican Book of Common Prayer sometimes gives the Lord’s Prayer with the doxology, sometimes without. Most Protestants attach it to the Lord’s Prayer.

      • land of the irish says:

        Tom, I don’t consider Wikipeia a reliable source. The phrase, although ancient and liturgically correct, in question was inserted by Protestants into the Pater Noster. The new mass accepted this insertion by moving the Amen from after, “deliver us from evil” to “forever and ever”.

        It is believed that a copyist when copying Matthew’s Gospel put a note in the margin, noting that in the Mass, we follow the “Our Father” with the doxology. A later copyist mistakenly transcribed the margin note into the text itself and it was preserved in all subsequent copies of the manuscript. The King James Version translators in 1611 A.D., (The King James Version is a Protestant Bible) used a copy of the New Testament that contained these added words. Most Protestant scholars admit that these words are not those of our Lord. But since this text was included by the translators, it is used by Protestants but is, ironically, a Catholic Liturgical prayer.

        An English version of the Our Father without the doxology actually did become accepted in the English-speaking world during the reign of Edward VI when the Book of Common Prayer of the Church of England did not add the doxology. However, during the reign of Elizabeth I there was a desire to rid the Church of England from any Catholic vestiges. Because of this wish for severance and not because of authenticity, the doxology of the Lord’s Prayer was re-included.

        Therefore, when non-Catholics ask us why we make the “Our Father” shorter than their form, we should tell them that the added words which they use are not a part of the prayer as given by our Blessed Lord, but rather a pious addition which is ancient but not original.

        I take back the “whole cloth”; but I stand by my theory that the insertion of the doxology before the Amen was done purely to appease heretics: just as the “new” traditional Good Friday prayer was created to appease the Jews (even though it backfired; there’s no appeasing some people).

        • land of the irish says:

          The irony of this answer is that some Protestants sometimes accuse Catholics of not being “literally” faithful to Sacred Scripture and depending too much on tradition. In this case, we see that the Catholic Church has been faithful to the Gospel text of the Our Father, while Protestant Churches have added something of tradition to the word of Jesus.

          Father Saunders is president of the Notre Dame Catechetical Institute and associate pastor of Queen of Apostles Parish, both in Alexandria, VA.

          Taken from March 17, 1994, Arlington Catholic Herald

  5. land of the irish says:

    Bugnini Masterminded
    The New Mass in Defiance of Pope Paul VI

    As we know, Monsignor Annibale Bugnini was the Masonic affiliate who headed the Vatican II consilium for the reform of the Roman liturgy. The consilium consisted of a number of liturgists including a Father Louis Bouyer who was opposed to the changes in the Mass. Bugnini told Bouyer that Pope Paul VI wanted these changes to the liturgy, and then Bugnini told Pope Paul that Bouyer and the consilium experts had decided in favor of these changes. Obviously, it was Bugnini who wanted the changes and Pope Paul later acknowledged to Fr. Bouyer that Monsignor Bugnini was a deceiver. The following is the conversation that took place between Pope Paul VI and Fr. Bouyer in 1974.

    From Inside the Vatican:
    (Note: here follows the text from the web site; the incident occurred in about 1974.)
    ==============================
    October 3rd — Sainte Thérèse de l’Enfant Jésus (Roman calendar and a local Saint here in Normandy)…

    Father Louis Bouyer: I wrote to the Holy Father, Pope Paul VI, to tender my resignation as member of the Commission charged with the Liturgical Reform. The Holy Father sent for me at once and the following conversation ensued:

    Paul VI: Father, you are an unquestionable and unquestioned authority by your deep knowledge of the Church’s liturgy and Tradition, and a specialist in this field. I do not understand why you have sent me your resignation, whilst your presence, is more than precious, it is indispensable!
    Father Bouyer: Most Holy Father, if I am a specialist in this field, I tell you very simply that I resign because I do not agree with the reforms you are imposing! Why do you take no notice of the remarks we send you, and why do you do the opposite?
    Paul VI: But I don’t understand: I’m not imposing anything. I have never imposed anything in this field. I have complete trust in your competence and your propositions. It is you who are sending me proposals. When Fr. Bugnini comes to see me, he says: “Here is what the experts are asking for.” And as you are an expert in this matter, I accept your judgement.
    Father Bouyer: And meanwhile, when we have studied a question, and have chosen what we can propose to you, in conscience, Father Bugnini took our text, and, then said to us that, having consulted you: “The Holy Father wants you to introduce these changes into the liturgy.” And since I don’t agree with your propositions, because they break with the Tradition of the Church, then I tender my resignation.
    Paul VI: But not at all, Father, believe me, Father Bugnini tells me exactly the contrary: I have never refused a single one of your proposals. Father Bugnini came to find me and said: “The experts of the Commission charged with the Liturgical Reform asked for this and that”. And since I am not a liturgical specialist, I tell you again, I have always accepted your judgement. I never said that to Monsignor Bugnini. I was deceived. Father Bugnini deceived me and deceived you.

    Father Bouyer: That is, my dear friends, how the liturgical reform was done!

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